What is wrong with Amerika. Vote Accordingly - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

#16 10-26-2010, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

It would be one thing to spend money when we can afford it. Quite another when we cannot. Do you believe we can afford it at this point?

When the folks who print the money decide to put more of it in circulation, it is not a matter of whether they can "afford it," it is a matter of how much long term debt (and/or devaluation of the currency) they are willing to accept in exchange for some short term stimulus. This is nothing more than a mechanism to create some economic activity in the short term. It is no different than giving everyone a small tax refund check or extending unemployment benefits for another six months. It doesn't matter who gets the money, it's still being put out there in the economy. If it goes over budget, that's an excuse to dump more cash into the economy.

I'm not defending this specific project. It really doesn't matter where/how the money is spent unless you are the one who wins that specific contract (or you are one of the union slugs who works for that contractor). The political reality is that this money is treated just like any other pork, and the rust belt is always in line for some pork from both parties.

aklim · #17 10-26-2010, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lupin..the..3rd

Of course it is! It's called spending your way out of a deficit. It works exactly the same way at the micro level, in personal finance. When you're flat broke, and all your credit cards are maxed out, how do you fix that? You apply for some new credit cards, of course, and spend spend spend!!!

Bye now. Gotta go get spending so I can be broke, spend my way out of it. Thanx for the tip.

#18 10-26-2010, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lupin..the..3rd

Of course it is! It's called spending your way out of a deficit. It works exactly the same way at the micro level, in personal finance. When you're flat broke, and all your credit cards are maxed out, how do you fix that? You apply for some new credit cards, of course, and spend spend spend!!!

The difference is that it can work on the macro level (for a limited amount of time), but it never works on the micro level.

aklim · #19 10-26-2010, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig

When the folks who print the money decide to put more of it in circulation, it is not a matter of whether they can "afford it," it is a matter of how much long term debt (and/or devaluation of the currency) they are willing to accept in exchange for some short term stimulus. This is nothing more than a mechanism to create some economic activity in the short term. It is no different than giving everyone a small tax refund check or extending unemployment benefits for another six months. It doesn't matter who gets the money, it's still being put out there in the economy. If it goes over budget, that's an excuse to dump more cash into the economy.

I'm not defending this specific project. It really doesn't matter where/how the money is spent unless you are the one who wins that specific contract (or you are one of the union slugs who works for that contractor). The political reality is that this money is treated just like any other pork, and the rust belt is always in line for some pork from both parties.

Well, here is my problem with it. All this is doing is throwing money away. Now, if you wanted to do that, why no upgrade an existing project THAT IS WORKING instead of trying to create one? you wanna toss $300 million somewhere? How about on improving one of the arteries in a busy town that desperately needs it?

Here is how I see it. Assuming I am muslim and in a country that supports me having up 4 wives. If the wife I have is not pretty, why not give her a boob job, vaginoplasty, tummy tuck, butt job, etc, etc? Why keep her and get another one?

#20 10-26-2010, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

Well, here is my problem with it. All this is doing is throwing money away. Now, if you wanted to do that, why no upgrade an existing project THAT IS WORKING instead of trying to create one? you wanna toss $300 million somewhere? How about on improving one of the arteries in a busy town that desperately needs it?

The feds spend a huge amount of money on those types of projects already, denver spent about a decade upgrading their downtown highways and light rail systems with plenty of fed money (and it actually helped traffic a little). We are really talking about a small amount of money being put into this specific project, I'm sure you could find dozens of similar projects all over the country.

I don't know if they are "throwing money away" or not. I don't know how much economic activity this project or the finished rail system will generate. Hopefully it will generate enough increase in the tax base to pay for itself eventually, but that's not really the short term goal.

#21 10-26-2010, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

Here is how I see it. Assuming I am muslim and in a country that supports me having up 4 wives. If the wife I have is not pretty, why not give her a boob job, vaginoplasty, tummy tuck, butt job, etc, etc? Why keep her and get another one?

It depends on your goal. Are you trying to get the most for your dollar today; or are you trying to subsidize the cosmetic surgery business sector in your country?

Local2ED · #22 10-26-2010, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig

When the folks who print the money decide to put more of it in circulation, it is not a matter of whether they can "afford it," it is a matter of how much long term debt (and/or devaluation of the currency) they are willing to accept in exchange for some short term stimulus. This is nothing more than a mechanism to create some economic activity in the short term. It is no different than giving everyone a small tax refund check or extending unemployment benefits for another six months. It doesn't matter who gets the money, it's still being put out there in the economy. If it goes over budget, that's an excuse to dump more cash into the economy.

I'm not defending this specific project. It really doesn't matter where/how the money is spent unless you are the one who wins that specific contract (or you are one of the union slugs who works for that contractor). The political reality is that this money is treated just like any other pork, and the rust belt is always in line for some pork from both parties.

How frustrating life must be for you craigy as you shlep yourself across country hoping someone throws you a bone only to realize when your in a UNIONIZED state the girl holding that stop/slow sign, which YOU look down upon, is making more money, has better benefits than you. Oh, lets not forget that she'll be going home to her family EVERY night. HAHAHA

tbomachines · #23 10-26-2010, 01:24 PM

If they just gave that 230 million to me, I'd create a company, bring up the local economy through people moving in to support my company, and create thousands of jobs. Or, if you gave me that trillion or two we spent on the war I'm sure I could do good things with it too. My point? The government doesn't always spend optimally, but asking stupid "what if" questions like the prius thing are even more dumb. If they are so angry about it, how 'bout they talk to their local congress person...but they're not angry because they are getting something useful.

MTUpower · #24 10-26-2010, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Local2ED

...in a UNIONIZED state the girl holding that stop/slow sign, which YOU look down upon, is making more money, has better benefits than you. ...

Great- a job that requires a third grade education pays huge bucks and benefits- - talk about a stupid- this is it.
I don't favor the big business, nor do I favor unions that allow folks to move up in salary due to getting older but not better or more qualified, or unions that allow menial jobs that require no education to pay more than a public school teacher makes.

MTUpower · #25 10-26-2010, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tbomachines

... but asking stupid "what if" questions like the prius thing are even more dumb. ...

If more of the "what if" question were asked we would not be in the trouble we are now in. Not asking "what if" is the problem- and denouncing folks that ask it is a big contributor to the problem.

raymr · #26 10-26-2010, 01:30 PM

Saw this on TV last night. Take a look at what they are doing in Curitiba Brazil. They have far fewer resources to spread around, but look at what they have accomplished.

http://www.yesmagazine.org/issues/cities-of-exuberance/curitiba-story-of-a-city

Local2ED · #27 10-26-2010, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTUpower

Great- a job that requires a third grade education pays huge bucks and benefits- - talk about a stupid- this is it.
I don't favor the big business, nor do I favor unions that allow folks to move up in salary due to getting older but not better or more qualified, or unions that allow menial jobs that require no education to pay more than a public school teacher makes.

You left out for end statement "damn I'm jealous" No ones telling you , you can't change jobs. HAHAHA

Whats even funnier is your safety is in the hands of someone you percieve to be beneath you LOL

aklim · #28 10-26-2010, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig

It depends on your goal. Are you trying to get the most for your dollar today; or are you trying to subsidize the cosmetic surgery business sector in your country?

If I could afford it, I'd do both. OTOH, during crunch time, which, if I am not mistaken, we are in, I'd get the most for my dollar.

aklim · #29 10-26-2010, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raymr

Saw this on TV last night. Take a look at what they are doing in Curitiba Brazil. They have far fewer resources to spread around, but look at what they have accomplished.

http://www.yesmagazine.org/issues/cities-of-exuberance/curitiba-story-of-a-city

What makes you think we can achieve that just because they did achieve it? This is a classic case of "monkey see, monkey do". We need to see if it makes sense here not whether it works there. Their circumstances might be different. This is why people buy those "rags to riches" books. They think that just because somebody did it, they will give you all their secrets and you can too. Not always.

We have tons of infrastructure that needs to be updated. A few years ago, a major highway had an issue in MN. We need to fix the toys we have first before buying new toys. I'll grant you that a new railway is way more sexy than fixing up an old structure but investing in something that has paid and is still paying is less risky than buying into a whole new venture. Granted that just because it worked in the past doesn't mean that the new upgrades will improve things but a new item is an even bigger risk. We don't know if it will work out or even pay for itself.