West's coverage of China - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

chilcutt · #16 11-09-2010, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 450slcguy

I'm beginning to understand the uproar in NYC about building a mosque near ground zero. It's becoming quite clear that a transformation from being a moderate Muslim to radical one is occuring.

Bernard Lewis's "Marker Issues'..being- democracy, human rights, polygamy, Islamic criminal penalties, hijab, beating of wives, status of minorities, and the Islamic State, as an agenda attacking Muslims, in order to silence voices that challenge neo-conservatives perspectives.
This excercise in self-delusion serves only to distract people from the real sources, and delays efforts to bring forth a lasting and permanent solution.
In essance, you are making a remark that you have no basis, other than speculation, to prove your point, and are using the fact that I am Muslim to discredit me. The original post had/has nothing to do with Islam/Muslims..it is about Western Media Portrayal in regards to China, so if we can stick to that issue it would be nice to not be sidetracked by knee-jerk responses from pundits.
Thank-You.

Chas H · #17 11-09-2010, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaRondo

Alltogether in a nutshell, the few responses sofar, show - on rough scale - the OP is right.

What amazes me the most is, that nobody has the spritz to use his/her brain and try to think behind the obvious. It's so typical.

In your opinion, what is the obvious?

Hatterasguy · #18 11-09-2010, 11:27 AM

Whats wrong with China now? They have some issues, well very big ones quite frankly but they are coming along. The pollution problems they are having are quite pressing and need addressing quickly.

I really would like to see them unpeg their currency to ours, our leaders should get off their fat over paid butts and start negotiating that. I'm kind of surprised Obama hasn't pushed for that, he actually has a pretty good policy towards China.

Hatterasguy · #19 11-09-2010, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chas H

In your opinion, what is the obvious?

Yeah I'm confused to.

chilcutt · #20 11-09-2010, 12:32 PM

When you look at China, you have to look at India as well. As Presidential candidate and President- elect, Mr.Obama had questioned India's control of Kashmir, cuasing deep concern in New Delhi. During his visit to China last year, the President in a joint state-ment with the Chinese had seemed to enviage a monitoring role for Beijing in resolving issues between India and Pakistan, which hurt feelings in India.

The simple truth is that India's rise and its strength and progress on the global stage is deeply in the strategic interests of the US. Clearly the US recognises India as a serious rival to the other rising power in the region, China, and see's merit in reaching out to New Delhi. For awhile there , the Obama administration, in its anxiety to forge closer ties with china, had neglected India, but no more.

What washington would likely want India to do would be take a more active role in East Asia to balance China's growing influence. as one Chinese analyist noted, rapprochement between the US and India would help temper Beijings behavior, partly if it deviates from its professed 'peacefull' rise.
In turn, some Chinese see India's "Look East" policy as part of an attempt to encircle it.Add the US strategy of using one to check the other, and the situation becomes less certain.
China would have preferred an India that adheres to its tradition of independance in its foriegn policy. But the US has been busy drawing lines in the sand vis-a-vis China in the recent months, and it is clear which side of the line India prefers to stand.

For better or worse, we live in interesting times.

davidmash · #21 11-09-2010, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chilcutt

The US media has a wider and freer role than the press in other countries. But American society, being large, rich and stable, is strong enough to endure the potential damage of having a media that does not always live up to its ideals of being judicious, fair and independant.
The US has 'built-in stability' There can be fringe lunatic behavior, but mainstrean Americans are sensible and rational, and extremeist sentiment will not threaten the very fabric of society.
In many developeing society's however, the glue holding society together is not as strong and these societies can easily rupture along tribal, ethnic, and relgious lines.
In the case of China,(and many other countries), racial and religious fault lines can be easily exploited.
Given these differances, my point is that what works for the US-its media and American-style democracy- may not easily be transposed elsewhere.
The US system will impose costs which large , rich country like the US can afford: the cost is too high for many other places.

I disagree with that and I think it is selling the Chinese short. They have been around for how many thousands of years? I do not think a free press and the freedom of expression would cause the down fall of their society. I think it would jeopardize the current power structure and those who control it but China would survive.

Personally I think repression just delays the inevitable. What would only be a minor change in course will be turned into an explosion the longer the change is repressed. China is trying to isolate the people from the rest of the world and in this day and age of instant communication that just will not work. I think they need to jump in now as opposed to delaying the inevitable.

chilcutt · #22 11-09-2010, 09:01 PM

DavidMash,

You raise a valid point, and I agree with you about enevitability. The thing to keep in mind about the Chinese, is that they are deliberate, calculating, and patient. They are rising, and will eventually obtain their goal as the next World Super power-but how to reach that goal-without touching off WW-3?

In the US, anger over China's currecy policy and frustration on issues from North Korea to climate change have dimmed hopes for a co-operative relationship with Beijing.

With an average anual growth rate of over 9% over the past 2 decades, China's economy exerts an extraordinary gravitational pull. Trade
between China and ASEAN jumped nearly 50% this year alone. Recognising the diplomatic clout that comes with increased economic power, Beijing is pursuing additional FTA's while directing billions in concessional loans. With China on track to achieve over 9% growth this year, these trends stand to continue.

That 3 of the biggest economies in Asia which are America's closest Allies in the region-Japan, S. Korea and Australia- are contemplateing FTA's with China indicates the magnitude of this imperative.

China's economic power is enevitable and prosperity is not a zero sum game. But the US must ensure that its allies never face a choice between their economic and geo-strategic interests-or between their pocketbooks and their freinds.

The only way to do so is to narrow the gap between the two, and the S. Korea FTA is where that must start.
Perhaps the one silver lining for Mr. Obama in Democratic losses in the mid-term elections will be a freer hand to do so.

davidmash · #23 11-09-2010, 11:08 PM

If the Chines government keeps yanking on the choke chain of their people, the current leaders might not make it to see the changes. Eventually people get tired of being deprived of everything they see their leaders enjoying.

As for NK, that is a boil on China's ass and they need to deal with that. It's their back yard and their spoiled brat of a kid. hey need to smack the little **** and make them play nice in the sand box.

lutzTD · #24 11-10-2010, 12:14 PM

on my last vist the pollution was so bad you could not see streetlights above you, just a brown glow. the hotel hallways had a brown haze 2 feet from the ceiling. if you put something on a table, within a day it would leave an oilly black outline and this is inside. you could walk across the surface of the city waterways. I hope that all of the good they are doing will eventually start to effect the horrible living conditions. at least they will make a good living before the breathing disorders and cancers get them

pj67coll · #25 11-10-2010, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidmash

If the Chines government keeps yanking on the choke chain of their people, the current leaders might not make it to see the changes. Eventually people get tired of being deprived of everything they see their leaders enjoying.

TS put paid to that concern.

- Peter.

#26 11-10-2010, 03:08 PM

Most people approach the Chinese with their hat in their hand.
They are afraid that the Chinese will stop buying our debt, keeping our economy propped up.

davidmash · #27 11-10-2010, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pj67coll

TS put paid to that concern.

- Peter.

I assume TS stands for Tienanmen square but I cannot understand the rest of what you said.

As far as Tienanmen Square is concerned, I think that is a starting point. I do not know what the boiling point is for the Chinese people as a whole. Perhaps they are not willing to risk life and limb yet and are looking for alternative methods of breaking out. Communication seems to hold the most promise. The government cannot keep out all the info. Things will leak in and as more and more info gets in, perhaps unrest will eventually force their hand. Perhaps it will be a generational thing like it was in the USSR. Gorbachev was not from the same stock as his predecessors. He realized that spending his country into the dust was not worth it in order to try and keep up with the US in an arms race. I think he realized that they system they had was broken and it was time to call it a night. Perhaps it will require a call to arms and if that is the case, a lot of people will die. For their sake, I hope it does not turn violent. That will not be good for anyone.

Quite a dew have argued that Iran will have to change from the inside. Assuming the clerics and Amedinijad don't do anything stupid like launch a nuke, the future generations in Iran will eventually take over and things will become more rational.

pj67coll · #28 11-10-2010, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidmash

I assume TS stands for Tienanmen square but I cannot understand the rest of what you said.

What I meant was that the Chinese people are not going to risk another Tianemen square. Thus the leadership probably do not have to worry about not being around.

Quote:

Gorbachev .... I think he realized that they system they had was broken and it was time to call it a night.

The system they had was communism. It was a failure out the starting gate and eventually died a deserved, and inevitable, death. China is not (despite the name of it's ruling clique) a communist country. It looked, and learned at what was happening in the USSR - even prior to it's collapse - and determined not to make that mistake. It's a capitalist country and as such the peoples standard of living will rise.

People will continue to make noises about freedom, but economic prosperity is vastly more important to them than freedom.

- Peter.

MTUpower · #29 11-10-2010, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chilcutt

Western media coverage of China's...

Did you write this or is it a cut and paste- and if so who wrote it? You seem to either 1) gotten a spell checker, or 2) cut and pasted and pass off as your own the last several threads you have started.
Which is it?
It's considered bad taste and deceiving to continually post what others write without noting the original author/link.

LaRondo · #30 11-10-2010, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chas H

In your opinion, what is the obvious?

The ‘obvious’ is that one of the primary purposes of ‘the media’ is, to create, build and maintain opinion.

I didn’t want to make a grinding argument out of it, but I surely can say, that I don’t see such finger pointing characteristics through media presentations in other places I frequently visit (Central Europe & South America) esp. when it comes to foreign nations.

American media is very particular in this respect. Whether it is the Russians, Chinese, Latin America, Island nations, Europe altogether. All of them are regarded with a lesser status of sorts than the US. There’s only 2 entities the US media does continued butt-kissing with, UK & Israel.

Ofcourse, not everything is obvious to anyone in the same way, but with a bit of an ‘outside’ view, objectivity and common sense a lot of things become a lot clearer very quickly.

Originally, I had a response posted to your #2 post. A ‘mirror-like’ reflection, which I decided to delete before it was going to derail the thread into a disaster of uncontrolled & overheated emotions. Any of the negative points in your post could be applied to the US as well, one way or another.

US media has the obligation to keep the population in their delirium and part of this obligation is to give us the sense that we are so much better off then everybody else. This, at least for the reason of diverting our understanding from the reality, that everything and all is held up by no more than a bunch of strings that can snap anytime, any day.

If this is not the case, we are subjected to an incredibly large scheme of the conspiracy kind, big enough to lure the entire global population into submission.