West's coverage of China - Page 3 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Chas H · #31 11-10-2010, 09:21 PM

How strange.
Readers take from the media what they want. The media generally has no purpose or obligation other than to attract readers in order to satisfy their advertisers. This is the same for every country were the press is not regulated; China being one of those countries that does regulate its press.
Anyone in this country can easily access the press in virtually any country that allows outside access. I believe China fails here again.
Can you expand on the "obligation to keep the population in delirium"? Who has imposed such an obligation? And does it apply to all media or just those outside China?
And this just in.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/11/10/world/main7042817.shtml?tag=stack

chilcutt · #32 11-10-2010, 09:24 PM

What impresses me about China, and Asian country's in general, is that they are 'forward thinking'.
Mostly all of the young school-age children are taught secondary,(and in many cases 3rd-4th languages), all becuase the Government/leaders/parents realise that ,in order to succeed in a Global economy, these children will need to interact with peoples from other coultures and other countries.

Eventually, these same children will become the next generation of leaders, and through their increased exposure to the growing world around them-not to mention their newfound financial/material wealth-the 'Old-Guard' mentality of the leaders we see today, will be replaced with a more complacent, agreeable peoples in general.

I cannot predict how long this will take,and can only say-hopefully soon.

MTUpower · #33 11-10-2010, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chilcutt

What impresses me about China, and Asian country's in general, is that they are 'forward thinking'...

wow. All I can say is "wow".

this emoticon is what happens to chinese people that don't think like the "forward thinkers".

davidmash · #34 11-10-2010, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chilcutt

What impresses me about China, and Asian country's in general, is that they are 'forward thinking'.
Mostly all of the young school-age children are taught secondary,(and in many cases 3rd-4th languages), all becuase the Government/leaders/parents realise that ,in order to succeed in a Global economy, these children will need to interact with peoples from other coultures and other countries.

Eventually, these same children will become the next generation of leaders, and through their increased exposure to the growing world around them-not to mention their newfound financial/material wealth-the 'Old-Guard' mentality of the leaders we see today, will be replaced with a more complacent, agreeable peoples in general.

I cannot predict how long this will take,and can only say-hopefully soon.

Sure learning a language is great. Learning math and science is great and in all likely hood China as well as damn near every other country (or so it seems) is far more forward thinking (if education of the sciences and language is the determining factor) but I think where that argument falls flat is the fact that in China that education comes with a huge slant (far more than the slant here in the US. When I was in college I had the option of going to the library or on line these days to check the 'facts' I am being taught. I could even question my professor. I suspect that is not the case in China.

chilcutt · #35 11-10-2010, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidmash

Sure learning a language is great. Learning math and science is great and in all likely hood China as well as damn near every other country (or so it seems) is far more forward thinking (if education of the sciences and language is the determining factor) but I think where that argument falls flat is the fact that in China that education comes with a huge slant (far more than the slant here in the US. When I was in college I had the option of going to the library or on line these days to check the 'facts' I am being taught. I could even question my professor. I suspect that is not the case in China.

On the contrary. China uses a very differant approach to learning, than is implemented in the US.
For instance- in the US, everyone has to learn all the subjects within the curiculem system- Math, science, history etc., in order to graduate.
China on the other hand, developes each childs natural talents, ie: " Ok, Xui, you are very good in algebra, and do not like history. So, we will exclude you from having to waste your time on history, because you will not flourish in that area, due to you not being interested in it. We will however have you take as much, or as many mathematic classes as you like, so that we all can extract the maximum potential from you".
In doing this, they have a happy student-plus gear that child towards a goal of making their country stronger.

LaRondo · #36 11-12-2010, 06:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chas H

How strange.
Readers take from the media what they want. The media generally has no purpose or obligation other than to attract readers in order to satisfy their advertisers. This is the same for every country were the press is not regulated; China being one of those countries that does regulate its press.
Anyone in this country can easily access the press in virtually any country that allows outside access. I believe China fails here again.
Can you expand on the "obligation to keep the population in delirium"? Who has imposed such an obligation? And does it apply to all media or just those outside China?
And this just in.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/11/10/world/main7042817.shtml?tag=stack

Just a reminder: this is really only my opinion. I have long abandoned mainstream media, aka TV, newspaper primarily. It is nauseating to me. If I would force myself to take in, I'd end up with manic depression.

I am sure there is a lot of restriction and regulation with the Chinese media system and also the access to outside media sources may be very limited.

Now, to think that our media is completely independent, just working on it's own behalf, is pretty naive ... in my opinion.

Today's media, in the US, also in Western Europe, is an extremely diversified and sophisticated, yet highly manipulative propaganda instrument. It's the aspect of "makebelief". We are bent to believe that we have access to all the independent details, yet we have no idea behind the censorship and control mechanisms behind everything we see, hear and read.

In comparison, China's media, with all it's regulation, is probably very clumpsy. But, they're getting there ....

75Sv1 · #37 11-12-2010, 07:26 AM

http://www.cnn.com/2010/OPINION/11/10/zakaria.asia.us.role/index.html

Also, some in Japan have been moving more to an eduactional system like India.
Tom

davidmash · #38 11-12-2010, 11:31 AM

My understanding is access to out side sources is far more than limited, it is banned and strictly enforced.

I agree 100% that the US media is not independent or unbiased but I can go on line and type in any URL from any country (friendly or not) and gain access to that POV and decide for my self what I want to believe.

Did I miss the announcement that they were going to allow web searches to return all the hits?

As for China's education system. Sure it's better than ours. Everyone's system seems to be better than ours. But what good is an education if you cannot apply it as you see fit? What good is an education if you are doing something that you really do not have a passion for?

75Sv1 · #39 11-12-2010, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidmash

My understanding is access to out side sources is far more than limited, it is banned and strictly enforced.

I agree 100% that the US media is not independent or unbiased but I can go on line and type in any URL from any country (friendly or not) and gain access to that POV and decide for my self what I want to believe.

Did I miss the announcement that they were going to allow web searches to return all the hits?

As for China's education system. Sure it's better than ours. Everyone's system seems to be better than ours. But what good is an education if you cannot apply it as you see fit? What good is an education if you are doing something that you really do not have a passion for?

I wonder if it is the system or the culture. If you look at sports or particulay NFL Footbal, you'll here about not having the personel to run a type of offense ot defense. There seems to be for the most part to blame the teachers for a student getting bad grades. I think I read that many of the recent spelling B winners were home schooled. Maybe if partents took a bit of time to help or make sure their rug rats did some home work, instead of texting, TV, Wii etc., then who knows.
You can have the best system, but sometime the execution of a good plan is better than the poor execution of a brilliant plan. Paraphrase of Clauswitz.
Tom

davidmash · #40 11-12-2010, 11:49 AM

I am sure there was a point in there somewhere trying to make it to my brain but it is still early for me and my brain could not connect with it. Can you rephrase for me?

lutzTD · #41 11-12-2010, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chilcutt

On the contrary. China uses a very differant approach to learning, than is implemented in the US.
For instance- in the US, everyone has to learn all the subjects within the curiculem system- Math, science, history etc., in order to graduate.
China on the other hand, developes each childs natural talents, ie: " Ok, Xui, you are very good in algebra, and do not like history. So, we will exclude you from having to waste your time on history, because you will not flourish in that area, due to you not being interested in it. We will however have you take as much, or as many mathematic classes as you like, so that we all can extract the maximum potential from you".
In doing this, they have a happy student-plus gear that child towards a goal of making their country stronger.

I work with a PHD from north China. We discussed his education and there are some other issues not raised here. in general, if you ask a question it reflects poorly on the teachers ability to teach, he losses face, It is not a good idea. So you learn the dictated facts with no real discussion. This is a big issue when you then ask a guy trained this way to think creatively. I will tell you the guys I work with a very smart, no denying, but their system rewards noncreative thinkers. Until this culture changes they will always have a disadvantage to a western education. Our guys generally take years to get past this issue and become truly independant and creative, but only after working in an american factory or here in the states. Otherwise they will never speak up, risk any type of failure or propose anything not 100% understood and noncontriversial

75Sv1 · #42 11-12-2010, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidmash

I am sure there was a point in there somewhere trying to make it to my brain but it is still early for me and my brain could not connect with it. Can you rephrase for me?

I guess to put it simply, maybe our educational system is OK. Maybe the kids are slackers. They don't put in the effort on their end. So, it might be a cultural or subcultural limiting factor. I haven't seen how the courses are taught today, though. I have heard it has changed.

I would say its like this. You could put me in an F1 race car, and someone like Shumacher in, well just about any car. He'd drive rings around me. So, they system, an F1 racer, isn't the problem. Its the talent, the will or the desire, to learn in this case. Give todays kids an I-Phone etc. they will know how to program and work it, to fit in or remain cool. So, they do have the desire and ability to learn what they want.
Tom

lutzTD · #43 11-13-2010, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 75Sv1

I guess to put it simply, maybe our educational system is OK. Maybe the kids are slackers. They don't put in the effort on their end. So, it might be a cultural or subcultural limiting factor. I haven't seen how the courses are taught today, though. I have heard it has changed.

I would say its like this. You could put me in an F1 race car, and someone like Shumacher in, well just about any car. He'd drive rings around me. So, they system, an F1 racer, isn't the problem. Its the talent, the will or the desire, to learn in this case. Give todays kids an I-Phone etc. they will know how to program and work it, to fit in or remain cool. So, they do have the desire and ability to learn what they want.
Tom

I have met a LOT of very intelligent Chinese and Indians. but I have to qualify that: US owned company jobs in China and India are much sought after, our company interviews 100"s for a single job. With that kind of resources, we should and are getting some very bright people. Once we teach them its OK to question and its OK to be wrong, its all part of the process, they work out very well. Some can never learn this, but most adapt

75Sv1 · #44 11-15-2010, 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lutzTD

I have met a LOT of very intelligent Chinese and Indians. but I have to qualify that: US owned company jobs in China and India are much sought after, our company interviews 100"s for a single job. With that kind of resources, we should and are getting some very bright people. Once we teach them its OK to question and its OK to be wrong, its all part of the process, they work out very well. Some can never learn this, but most adapt

Where I work, there are plenty of Chinese, Indians etc. So I do not disagree that they have intelligent people. Also, each country has over a Billion people. The US has about 300 milion. So, just the odds India and Chinia would have more people, of higher intelligence. You might be seeing the cream of the crop.
I did ask an Indian more than a few years ago, about the caste system and that was the reason they took jobs in the US. Sounds weird, but its sort of a reverse discrimination. The upper caste are smaller in number, but wealthy. They sent their kids to the best schools. When they look for a job in India, most jobs have to be filled with lower caste. That is since the lower cast usually have more people, so they control the vote. Some of the lower caste don't have enough members. So they are excluded, by the other caste, both upper and lower.
The US is fairly transparent. Other countries, especially Asian have many layers to be pealed away.
Now, I'm not saying the the US educational system couldn't be improved. I do wonder if part of the problem is that we have many different cultures. I see some differences in how other cultures learn or at least teach.
Tom

lutzTD · #45 11-15-2010, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 75Sv1

Where I work, there are plenty of Chinese, Indians etc. So I do not disagree that they have intelligent people. Also, each country has over a Billion people. The US has about 300 milion. So, just the odds India and Chinia would have more people, of higher intelligence. You might be seeing the cream of the crop.
I did ask an Indian more than a few years ago, about the caste system and that was the reason they took jobs in the US. Sounds weird, but its sort of a reverse discrimination. The upper caste are smaller in number, but wealthy. They sent their kids to the best schools. When they look for a job in India, most jobs have to be filled with lower caste. That is since the lower cast usually have more people, so they control the vote. Some of the lower caste don't have enough members. So they are excluded, by the other caste, both upper and lower.
The US is fairly transparent. Other countries, especially Asian have many layers to be pealed away.
Now, I'm not saying the the US educational system couldn't be improved. I do wonder if part of the problem is that we have many different cultures. I see some differences in how other cultures learn or at least teach.
Tom

castes are a challange as well. it does not transfer well to the US and all Ive met that come here are upper caste becuase of the cost and opportunities they have. They need to initially get past the "everyones an untouchable here" mentality before they are good team members. It particularly irks me to get talked down to by someone I am training.

Chinese are without exception very polite and nice to work with.