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#16 01-17-2011, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 450slcguy

In reality manufacturing is the basis for a strong economy and a growing middle class.

I do agree with the "middle class" comment. For years the US economy has supported a very large number of relatively unskilled workers at inflated labor costs. That model worked when the US economy was relatively isolated, but it will not work as part of a global economy. The fact is that the value added by those folks is just not worth very much in a competitive market. If today's economy, you need to be competitive on a global basis, if your job is "portable" and someone else in the world can do it better and cheaper you are toast.

Personally, I'm not sure that a strong economy needs a "growing middle class," as long as the total value added is sufficient. I do think we will see some changes to society in the next couple of generations, and I do suspect there will be a larger gap between those contributing to the overall economy and those in the service sector. Keep in mind that the US population is only about 7 percent of the world, there are plenty of markets out there.

450slcguy · #17 01-17-2011, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig

I the area of consumer products, the added value is not in the hardware it is in the design, marketing, features, etc. This article is a perfect example of what kind of misinformation you generate when you apply industrial age accounting practices to the current business model. To make a long story short, your $700 iPhone has a wholesale value of about $180 and is manufactured/assembled in china. However, the value added due to the actual manufacturing process is less than $2 per unit. Does the US really want to build these things in their country at a cost of maybe $50 per unit and raise the wholesale price to $230? The point is that the vast majority of the revenue associated with this product is staying in the US, china is doing the little piece that they can do more cheaply.

http://www.businessinsider.com/iphone-impact-on-trade-deficit-2011-1

I suppose if your only concerns are for corporate dividends, then yes it's effective.

For the rest of America, it means unemployment and the loss of critical trades and skills.

#18 01-17-2011, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 450slcguy

I suppose if your only concerns are for corporate dividends, then yes it's effective.

For the rest of America, it means unemployment and the loss of critical trades and skills.

The "rest of america" needs to put down their beer, turn off NASCAR, get off the couch, and find themselves a marketable skill. This should not be a surprise to anyone who has been awake for the last 40 years.

LaRondo · #19 01-17-2011, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig

I the area of consumer products, the added value is not in the hardware it is in the design, marketing, features, etc. This article is a perfect example of what kind of misinformation you generate when you apply industrial age accounting practices to the current business model. To make a long story short, your $700 iPhone has a wholesale value of about $180 and is manufactured/assembled in china. However, the value added due to the actual manufacturing process is less than $2 per unit. Does the US really want to build these things in their country at a cost of maybe $50 per unit and raise the wholesale price to $230? The point is that the vast majority of the revenue associated with this product is staying in the US, china is doing the little piece that they can do more cheaply.

http://www.businessinsider.com/iphone-impact-on-trade-deficit-2011-1

What you don't seem to understand is, employment is a major and essential aspect of wellbeing and prosperity of a nation. Not everybody can have their business. Employment is consistenly shrinking while the population is growing. On top of it, even the few opportunities available are mostly outsourced to HB1 foreign employment takers.

The business you are referring to benefits almost exclusively the corporations involved, with less then ever beneficial effect on the general population.

Your concept of "added value" doesn't address the situation.

The balance between being productive as a nation compared to the level of consumption plays a primary role in how wealth and prosperity is distributed to the population.

LaRondo · #20 01-17-2011, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig

The "rest of america" needs to put down their beer, turn off NASCAR, get off the couch, and find themselves a marketable skill. This should not be a surprise to anyone who has been awake for the last 40 years.

How about putting the keyboard to rest and pause posting.

One could get the impression of you being paid to make diffractional comments and posts on topics that concern us as a nation.

#21 01-17-2011, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaRondo

What you don't seem to understand is, employment is a major and essential aspect of wellbeing and prosperity of a nation. Not everybody can have their business. Employment is consistenly shrinking while the population is growing. On top of it, even the few opportunities available are mostly outsourced to HB1 foreign employment takers.

The business you are referring to benefits almost exclusively the corporations involved, with less then ever beneficial effect on the general population.

Your concept of "added value" doesn't address the situation.

The balance between being productive as a nation compared to the level of consumption plays a primary role in how wealth and prosperity is distributed to the population.

I agree, the distribution of wealth will be different under this new model. I didn't invent the concept of "added value," ideally individuals (as well as nations) will be rewarded based on the market value of their specific contributions. The "level of consumption" in the US will probably decrease, but there will be new markets elsewhere. The US will probably have to adjust significantly, we will see if they have what it takes to play in this league.

#22 01-17-2011, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaRondo

How about putting the keyboard to rest and pause posting.

One could get the impression of you being paid to make diffractional comments and posts on topics that concern us as a nation.

I would hate to be accused of making "diffractional comments" that affect your nation.

pj67coll · #23 01-17-2011, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig

I the area of consumer products, the added value is not in the hardware it is in the design, marketing, features, etc. This article is a perfect example of what kind of misinformation you generate when you apply industrial age accounting practices to the current business model. To make a long story short, your $700 iPhone has a wholesale value of about $180 and is manufactured/assembled in china. However, the value added due to the actual manufacturing process is less than $2 per unit. Does the US really want to build these things in their country at a cost of maybe $50 per unit and raise the wholesale price to $230? The point is that the vast majority of the revenue associated with this product is staying in the US, china is doing the little piece that they can do more cheaply.

http://www.businessinsider.com/iphone-impact-on-trade-deficit-2011-1

What exactly do you mean by "added value"? Added value to what? To some CEO's corporate balance sheet? What good does that do a thousand unemployed? Why should I give a rats ass if the Iphone costs fifty bucks more by being made in the US? If I have a job, so I can buy it, should I wish to have it, I'd be far happier than if I have no job and thus can't afford it, should I actually want it, even if it's made for fifty bucks less in China.

- Peter.

pj67coll · #24 01-17-2011, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig

I do agree with the "middle class" comment. For years the US economy has supported a very large number of relatively unskilled workers at inflated labor costs. That model worked when the US economy was relatively isolated, but it will not work as part of a global economy.

True.

Quote:

If today's economy, you need to be competitive on a global basis, if your job is "portable" and someone else in the world can do it better and cheaper you are toast.

Also true.

Quote:

Personally, I'm not sure that a strong economy needs a "growing middle class," as long as the total value added is sufficient.

I think you might want to peruse some history texts to find out what happens to societies without strong middle classes...

The fact that we are in an era of globalization now doesn't mean it can't all come crashing to a grinding halt. This is not the first era of globalization, humanity has been here before and it's end wasn't pretty.

- Peter.

- Peter.

LaRondo · #25 01-17-2011, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig

I would hate to be accused of making "diffractional comments" that affect your nation.

Most people do hate accusations of any kind. You seem to have a real twang on diverting and misrepresenting other poster's comments.
Your approach is condescending and ridiculing my statement, to say the least.
You seem to ride an agenda of some kind, either personal or otherwise premeditaded to undermine participants views regarding national economic concerns.

Daman858 · #26 01-17-2011, 04:09 PM

Yep, but I can still get a Moon Pie and a Nehi grape soda!

450slcguy · #27 01-17-2011, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaRondo

One could get the impression of you being paid to make diffractional comments and posts on topics that concern us as a nation.

That's the problem. Many have no concern for the nation as long as they profit from it.

#28 01-17-2011, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daman858

Yep, but I can still get a Moon Pie and a Nehi grape soda!

I get the distinct impression that some posters think they would be much happier living in that era.

#29 01-17-2011, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaRondo

Most people do hate accusations of any kind. You seem to have a real twang on diverting and misrepresenting other poster's comments.
Your approach is condescending and ridiculing my statement, to say the least.
You seem to ride an agenda of some kind, either personal or otherwise premeditaded to undermine participants views regarding national economic concerns.

Like most people, I "hate" any meaningful accusations. I have no agenda, except I think pointless panic is ..... well, pointless.

#30 01-17-2011, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 450slcguy

That's the problem. Many have no concern for the nation as long as they profit from it.

I am actually concerned about people who do work, regardless of where the happen to live. I am not more concerned about american workers than anyone else. If the system works correctly, everyone will be payed based on their contribution.