Americans Say Pay Should Be Based on Performance Instead of Education, Seniority - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Skid Row Joe · #1 03-14-2011, 12:28 AM

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/business/jobs_employment/march_2011/americans_say_pay_should_be_based_on_performance_instead_of_education_seniority

JamesDean · #2 03-14-2011, 03:26 AM

Hm, theres some merit to that. I can see definite applications in the manufacturing (and similar) industries where ones work is quantifiable, traceable and typically transparent. Employee X was responsible for putting these parts on in this time frame or head of department was to perform these operations to these goals..etc...

I'm not so sure how well that would work in more research and theoretical type of jobs. Cutting someone's pay down because they haven't cured the disease or come up with the solution....

Then you've always (and i think this is really independent of pay system) the people who decide just what qualifies as a factor in determining pay (time/quantity of products)..classic "who monitors the monitors"

JamesDean · #3 03-14-2011, 03:35 AM

Heres a link to the questions that they asked:
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/business/econ_survey_questions/march_2011/questions_unions_and_employment_march_9_10_2011

Some of these scenarios don't quite make sense...

Example:
1* Suppose you had two workers doing the same job for the same company. One had a higher level of education but the other one gets more done at work. Which worker should be paid more, or should they be paid the same amount?

My thoughts:
1) The job itself must not require a "higher level of education" if both employees which are at different levels can do the work. So then in this scenario the person with a "higher level of education" would be over-educated and shouldn't be compensated more so than the job deserves.
Example: Garbageman. Don't need a BS/MS/PhD to do it, so if you have one and apply, one shouldn't be compensated additionally.

This argument isn't really bulletproof but its good food for thought.

aklim · #4 03-14-2011, 04:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesDean

I'm not so sure how well that would work in more research and theoretical type of jobs. Cutting someone's pay down because they haven't cured the disease or come up with the solution"

I think sometimes you can base it off the research grants they get. More grants, more work, more money for the university. I know a husband and wife who worked for the same department. One of them got tenure in 2 years and the other in 7 years.

aklim · #5 03-14-2011, 04:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesDean

Heres a link to the questions that they asked:
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/business/econ_survey_questions/march_2011/questions_unions_and_employment_march_9_10_2011

Some of these scenarios don't quite make sense...

Example:
1* Suppose you had two workers doing the same job for the same company. One had a higher level of education but the other one gets more done at work. Which worker should be paid more, or should they be paid the same amount?

My thoughts:
1) The job itself must not require a "higher level of education" if both employees which are at different levels can do the work. So then in this scenario the person with a "higher level of education" would be over-educated and shouldn't be compensated more so than the job deserves.
Example: Garbageman. Don't need a BS/MS/PhD to do it, so if you have one and apply, one shouldn't be compensated additionally.

This argument isn't really bulletproof but its good food for thought.

Take RNs for example. Whether you are a 2 yr associate degree RN or 4 yr BSN, you both have the same license. One is more promotable than the other. Also within that, they can get higher certifications which make them even more useful in that job.

layback40 · #6 03-14-2011, 04:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

Take RNs for example. Whether you are a 2 yr associate degree RN or 4 yr BSN, you both have the same license. One is more promotable than the other. Also within that, they can get higher certifications which make them even more useful in that job.

Thats interesting aklim. Over here a 2year is called an EN. & 4 Year a RN. EN's are common as. RN's are the ones you want if your life depends on it.

raymr · #7 03-14-2011, 08:51 AM

In many cases, it's not so much the education but the connections you make while being educated. My son is finding this out after joining a fraternity, and seeing how the alumni often help out new members with internships and introductions to powerful people. It's not particularly fair but that's just how it works. If two people with the same skills compete for a job, the one with the most education has the advantage. That gets you in the door, but I agree that a person's track record on the job should determine their pay more than anything else.

Dee8go · #8 03-14-2011, 09:06 AM

Requiring performance standards at work? Hmmmm . . . I don't know. I think that could set a dangerous precedent. The next thing you know, people will get all stressed out, work harder, production will increase, and God only knows what else might happen!

strelnik · #9 03-14-2011, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesDean

Heres a link to the questions that they asked:
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/business/econ_survey_questions/march_2011/questions_unions_and_employment_march_9_10_2011

Some of these scenarios don't quite make sense...

Example:
1* Suppose you had two workers doing the same job for the same company. One had a higher level of education but the other one gets more done at work. Which worker should be paid more, or should they be paid the same amount?

My thoughts:
1) The job itself must not require a "higher level of education" if both employees which are at different levels can do the work. So then in this scenario the person with a "higher level of education" would be over-educated and shouldn't be compensated more so than the job deserves.
Example: Garbageman. Don't need a BS/MS/PhD to do it, so if you have one and apply, one shouldn't be compensated additionally.

This argument isn't really bulletproof but its good food for thought.

Here's my point:
Worker A with a GED collects the garbage, no problems. Worker B with the BSIE looks at the garbage collections process, proposes ten improvements that save time/money and do not infringe on safety. Management is too dumb or resistant to change (that's the way we've always done it!) to make the changes. Should worker B receive compensation?

Or should he quit and become a consultant?

Curiously, people I knew who were skilled tradesmen in the UAW and who got tired of no recognition for their suggestions, formed consullting companies on the side and made millions.

No one even knew this happened until one tradesman bought a gigando house next to a Chrysler vice president, and the VP came over and introduced himself to the new "neighbor"

The tradesman decided to give up improving the company and improve his own bank account instead.

He stayed with the Chrysler plant in Indiana long enough to get the free Blue Cross and retirement benefits, then he launched himself full speed into his company and sold it a few years later.

Solidarity forever!

Moral: if you cultivate initiative in your work force, be ready to reward it for what it's worth.

In other words, capitalists have to share the pie with people who add real value, not give them a plaque and a lay-off notice. The smart ones learn this, as Bill Gates found out.

BobK · #10 03-14-2011, 09:11 AM

http://search.dilbert.com/search?w=spreadsheet+cells&view=list&filter=type%3Acomic

aklim · #11 03-14-2011, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by layback40

Thats interesting aklim. Over here a 2year is called an EN. & 4 Year a RN. EN's are common as. RN's are the ones you want if your life depends on it.

It's kinda confusing here. You have a CNA (certified Nursing Assistant), LPN (Licensed Practical Nurse, 1 yr school or something like that), RN (2, 3 or 4 yr, I think there is still a 3 yr although they don't have a Bachelor's degree), NP (Nurse Practitioner. Since 2011, they have more fluff and are no longer Masters of Science but Doctor of Nursing Practice).

CNAs basically do the care work and are low level. LPNs cannot do invasive procedures unless trained so they are being phased out and pushed into nursing homes. In the RN class, you get the same license but at this time, you aren't promotable really. Many hospitals insist you have a Masters or are getting one to be a manager. As an NP, they used to be an RN with some advanced training but not for a long time. Now they are mostly MSN and the new crop will be DnP. They actually get to call themselves "Doctor".

layback40 · #12 03-14-2011, 09:41 AM

There is an old saying; work is but prostitution, reported to be the oldest profession, you may as well go to the highest bidder!
That was told to a group of us young up & coming engineering executives by a guy by the name of Andrew Butler.
He was a few steps higher up the ladder than us.
He went on to become the president of the Dow Chemical Company.

It looks like it worked for him!

He also said;
1/Always keep an up to date resume in your desk. &

2/If you find that you are continually taking work home in the long term, there are only 2 possible reasons & only one possible solution.

reasons
1/ The job is too big. or
2/ You are not up to the job.

solution
You & the job must part.

elchivito · #13 03-14-2011, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

It's kinda confusing here. You have a CNA (certified Nursing Assistant), LPN (Licensed Practical Nurse, 1 yr school or something like that), RN (2, 3 or 4 yr, I think there is still a 3 yr although they don't have a Bachelor's degree), NP (Nurse Practitioner. Since 2011, they have more fluff and are no longer Masters of Science but Doctor of Nursing Practice).

CNAs basically do the care work and are low level. LPNs cannot do invasive procedures unless trained so they are being phased out and pushed into nursing homes. In the RN class, you get the same license but at this time, you aren't promotable really. Many hospitals insist you have a Masters or are getting one to be a manager. As an NP, they used to be an RN with some advanced training but not for a long time. Now they are mostly MSN and the new crop will be DnP. They actually get to call themselves "Doctor".

My wife and son's primary provider is a Nurse Practitioner, they like her a lot. NP's are filling the MD void in our rural area quite nicely. Finish your license, open your doors and you're instantly busy. My doc is a certified internist, and frankly, he refers me to specialists about as often as my family's NP does them. I see no difference in care at this point.

aklim · #14 03-14-2011, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by layback40

There is an old saying; work is but prostitution, reported to be the oldest profession, you may as well go to the highest bidder!

Think about it. What is he difference between a hooker and a guy going to work? They are both trading on a commodity. That crew I hired to drywall my house isn't there for the hell of it. They put forth their skills and effort because I pay them as does the hooker.

aklim · #15 03-14-2011, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elchivito

My wife and son's primary provider is a Nurse Practitioner, they like her a lot. NP's are filling the MD void in our rural area quite nicely.

Finish your license, open your doors and you're instantly busy.

My doc is a certified internist, and frankly, he refers me to specialists about as often as my family's NP does them. I see no difference in care at this point.

Well, their background is vastly different. NPs are about 80% of what the MD gets paid so for rural areas, there are savings to be had.

We are thinking of that but there are a lot of complications. For instance, as an MD you can easily get financing for the clinic but as an NP you have to go thru more hoops.

I don't know about your state but here in WI, an NP is able to write Schedule II narcotics and order any tests necessary and refer. Different states vary.

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