I think we should be ashamed - Page 4 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

pj67coll · #46 03-25-2011, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chilcutt

Stand down killer, your hyper-aggresive masculinity is flareing up again.

Dude, give it a rest...

- Peter.

aklim · #47 03-25-2011, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strelnik

I think it's all about being ambitious, focused and grabbing opportunity, being disciplined enough to prioritize what you want.

Most people don't know what they want when they start adulthood, some find it faster than others, some get sidetracked, drift and never find it.

America is a huge economy and it is so rich that it has subsidized the life of a lot of people.

The people who came here from Europe were not the wealthy, well-established-- they were the ones who had nothing to lose!
Some died on the trip but it was still better than the alternative, at least in their minds.

Seed money is good, but it is no guarantee. You can go up and down-- Donald Trump is an example of that.

In summary, yes, those items mentioned do help greatly towards achieving what you want. It should be said that it is NOT a guarantee either lest someone say "Well, I worked hard, etc, etc but didn't get what I wanted.". It's like buying a lottery ticket. It puts you in the running for the grand prize. Buy more tickets and your odds are better. Buy every ticket except one and your odds are fantastic but the last one might be the winning number still.

I think the issue is that most people don't bother to look at what they want and just figure that the tides of fortune will push them towards what they want sooner or later. Sure, there is the "I want to be a doctor, astronaut, etc, etc" when the guy is a kid but what I have seen is that many lack the serious drive to really explore what they think they want.

Therein lies the problem. Guy is given a fish and has no need to learn how to fish.

But they seem to lack a lazy mentality which puts them in better stead.

In some cases, it might be bad since it gives you a sense of complacency. In other cases, it gives someone the excuse they need to justify their lack of effort. "Well, I am poor and I will probably not get anywhere so why try?".

aklim · #48 03-25-2011, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmac2012

The Japanese were much impressed by our tech and mounted a crash course on catching up such that they nearly equaled us in many things as of 1941.

Perhaps but I think their biggest push came after WW II where they realize that they were hated in many parts of the world and that they either pull themselves up by the bootstraps or die, as many people would like them to.

That said, there was a documentary that did say the younger generation that didn't have to go thru that were less willing to work and make sacrifices that their parents would have done without a thought.l

aklim · #49 03-25-2011, 03:49 PM

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Originally Posted by t walgamuth

Lots of folks are born so far behind they can never catch up. All folks are born with opportunity, but not all are born with the tools needed to take advantage of the opportunity.

I used the words "permanently disenfranchised". Perhaps this is too strong but some folks are born with many strikes against them and feel they are permanently disenfranchised. In this case perception becomes reality for them.

That is blaming the stars under which you were born. There is more than one opportunity. There is not simply one way to make it.

Well, no matter how high you rise, there will always be obstacles. You can't get to a point and then the road is plain sailing. Sorry, if you are PD and you choose to make perception a reality, you don't have the mentality to succeed and that is why you don't. As I tell people who tell me their lives are so bad, strikes against them, etc, etc, if it is that bad, perhaps it is time to end it all. And yes, I make no bones about telling people that. I have told anyone, up to my own wife and myself that same piece of advice. Wake up and fix it or die. Whichever is easier.

aklim · #50 03-25-2011, 03:52 PM

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Originally Posted by 732002

I don't think you get how large of an advantage it is to come from a family with money. Winning is easy if you get a head start.

If you live in a poor neighborhood the public schools don't prep you for college and even if they did you still don't have the money to pay for college.

Land of unequal opportunity.

Easier if all things are equal, sure. Easy as in plain sailing, yeah, right. It is easy to blame the stars under which you were born if you are poor with a bad attitude.

If only there were such things as loans.

Got a better land where everything is on an equal footing? There is no such land in the world.

Skid Row Joe · #51 03-25-2011, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

Stop blaming your life on the stars or in this case your ancestors. Take some personal responsibility. It can be done. It might be harder, all things being equal but it can be done. Besides, all things are NOT equal.

You're on a roll, aklim. Right-on!

Some aren't able to grasp; "help thyself" is the program in America. 'Victim-mentality' is the default position to some.

MTI · #52 03-25-2011, 04:00 PM

When folks get banned and go where ever banned members go . . . do they tend to come back as somewhat creepy cheerleaders?

Edward Wyatt · #53 03-25-2011, 04:31 PM

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Originally Posted by MTI

When folks get banned and go where ever banned members go . . . do they tend to come back as somewhat creepy cheerleaders?

Sure looks like it.

When srj walks a mile in the shoes of someone with a heavy accent and a skin color other than pasty white, then his comments about victim mentality might be different. Quite the contrary, most immigrants are very hard working and industrious, the victim mentality is usually played out by white trash druggies to give one example.

My comments should have been more succinct, it's hard to get a foot in the door when people don't see you as one of their own. That's something that buffet junior will never understand because he has never experienced it himself, or seen it through the eyes of an employer.

Now, if you grow up in a wealthy family, and you achieve financial greatness for youself, that's great. But don't try to tell me that it's not a wee bit harder for someone for a first generation immigrant.

srj will never admit it, but he had doors open for him that for some people, no matter how hard they try, will never open.

aklim · #54 03-25-2011, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward Wyatt

Sure looks like it.

When srj walks a mile in the shoes of someone with a heavy accent and a skin color other than pasty white, then his comments about victim mentality might be different. Quite the contrary, most immigrants are very hard working and industrious, the victim mentality is usually played out by white trash druggies to give one example.

My comments should have been more succinct, it's hard to get a foot in the door when people don't see you as one of their own. That's something that buffet junior will never understand because he has never experienced it himself, or seen it through the eyes of an employer.

Now, if you grow up in a wealthy family, and you achieve financial greatness for youself, that's great. But don't try to tell me that it's not a wee bit harder for someone for a first generation immigrant.

srj will never admit it, but he had doors open for him that for some people, no matter how hard they try, will never open.

You might be right that he doesn't understand it. Care to say that about me too?

Signed PP's Resident first generation immigrant Chink, "Yellow N1gger" or any other epithet you choose to call Chinese people.

MTI · #55 03-25-2011, 04:44 PM

From my experience, I would disagree with Edward. My experience, in particular, comes from growing up in Hawaii, a place where wave after wave of immigrants from all over the Pacific have landed with literally nothing and have generation by generation moved from the bottom rungs. Each group did it in different ways, but the consistent path has been through public education and political organization.

aklim · #56 03-25-2011, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTI

From my experience, I would disagree with Edward. My experience, in particular, comes from growing up in Hawaii, a place where wave after wave of immigrants from all over the Pacific have landed with literally nothing and have generation by generation moved from the bottom rungs. Each group did it in different ways, but the consistent path has been through public education and political organization.

On a side note, looking at immigrants to discern things can be in a way telling and yet not so accurate. Problem is that as an immigrant, they already know that they are transplanting themselves to a strange new environment with no real advantages so they have to be of that mentality that they need to work hard with no expectations of a safety net. After all, if you are the lazy sort, why not stick to familiar grounds where you know people, the way they think and all the tricks to get around? Why reinvent the wheel?

MTI · #57 03-25-2011, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

On a side note, looking at immigrants to discern things can be in a way telling and yet not so accurate. Problem is that as an immigrant, they already know that they are transplanting themselves to a strange new environment with no real advantages so they have to be of that mentality that they need to work hard with no expectations of a safety net. After all, if you are the lazy sort, why not stick to familiar grounds where you know people, the way they think and all the tricks to get around? Why reinvent the wheel?

Some groups didn't have an option. The Vietnamese, for instance. Further, the issue isn't whether each wave of immigrants was predisposed to "work hard" . . . the issue is whether there was the opportunity to thrive and prosper by working hard, from the bottom up. In the short time that Hawaii has been a state, take a look at the diversity in the governor's office, caucasians, native hawaiian, asian and filipino.

Jorn · #58 03-25-2011, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTI

From my experience, I would disagree with Edward. My experience, in particular, comes from growing up in Hawaii, a place where wave after wave of immigrants from all over the Pacific have landed with literally nothing and have generation by generation moved from the bottom rungs. Each group did it in different ways, but the consistent path has been through public education and political organization.

You forget one thing that immigrants that come to this country are already the most adventures, strongest, they took a huge risk by moving to another country. The "weaker" less daring stay where they are. Immigrants are looking for a better place, so they will fight for it and make sure there children will get ahead.

But if you're not born in the right family or part of the country it can be tough to get ahead. That's one of the reasons the army is so good at recruiting soldiers from rural areas where there are not many opportunities to get out.

But as an immigrant I can tell you this country gives opportunities not many other countries will give you. But hey I'm white, male, tall, good looking and I speak decent English...

MTI · #59 03-25-2011, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jorn

But if you're not born in the right family or part of the country it can be tough to get ahead.

Should it be easy?

aklim · #60 03-25-2011, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTI

Some groups didn't have an option. The Vietnamese, for instance. Further, the issue isn't whether each wave of immigrants was predisposed to "work hard" . . .

the issue is whether there was the opportunity to thrive and prosper by working hard.

I don't know if I would consider the Vietnamese since they were refugees. I was talking about those who chose to pick themselves up from familiar surroundings and go somewhere else to make a better life for themselves. Refugees were basically moved by the barrel of a gun so you will get a mixed bag as opposed to a group that thinks they can make something of themselves. Why would you or I sell all our possessions to move to Iceland unless we see a way we can make something more of ourselves there. We'd be essentially starting all over and that takes A LOT of effort. More than staying in your own neck of the woods.

I believe there is the opportunity to thrive and prosper by working hard. Note, the key word is opportunity and NOT guarantee. Hard work and talent will improve your odds but, unlike what some people want, it is NOT etched in stone that "Thou shalt succeed (whatever your definition of succeed is) if thou shalt work hard.". Like the lottery ticket buying, it improves your odds but will not deliver a win. Nothing will.

The problem is too many use that as an excuse for lack of effort. "Because I cannot be assured of a win, why should I even try and waste my effort." If you refuse to try, you definitely will not succeed. If you try, you may succeed. The harder you try, the more likely you will succeed. It is that attitude that will help in success because even if this endeavor does not succeed, if you have the right attitude, the next one or the one after that might just work out. If you have a bad attitude, even if the winning lottery ticket is around the corner, you won't win because you won't even go out and pick it up.