how far will a ship roll without capsizing? - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

dynalow · #16 04-08-2011, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth

One of my cronies is an ex navy man. He said maybe fortyfive degrees. I thought as long as the ship was undamaged and boyant it would nearly go upside down and still right itself.

Another fellow said the big guns on a ship are just sittting in their places and if the ship goes upside down they will simply fall out. I was skeptical of this but do not know.

I just googled it all and found many many articles on it but no real hard information. ONe artical used an example which showed a ship and said it would go past ninety degrees but at one o seven it would capsize.

That is true Tom. I took of a tour of the USS New Jersey and was told exactly that.
Here are a couple of pictures from insider her No. 1 Turret.

As we are men who deal in facts, herewith....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_turret

Layout

In naval terms, turret traditionally and specifically refers to a gun mounting where the entire mass rotates as one, and has a trunk that pierces the deck. The rotating part of a turret seen above deck is the gunhouse, which protects the mechanism and crew, and is where the guns are loaded. The gunhouse is supported on a bed of rotating rollers, and is not physically attached to the ship; were the ship to capsize, the turret would fall out. Below the gunhouse there may be a working chamber, where ammunition is handled, and the main trunk, which accommodates the shell and propellant hoists that bring ammunition up from the magazines below.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/16%22/50_caliber_Mark_7_gun

dynalow · #17 04-08-2011, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDon

The massive guns on the WWII battleships and destroyers are actually just sitting on rollers if I am not mistaken. . If they capsize the guns would fall out of place

You win the prize Don!

R Leo · #18 04-08-2011, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rocky raccoon

A ship has two critical dimensions related to the capsizing moment.

(1) The Center of Gravity; Cg
(2) the Center of Bouyancy; Cb

Cb is the center of gravity of the volume of water displaced by the ship.
A ship is designed so that the Cb is below the Cg on the same vertical line when the ship is upright. It is then stable. As a ship rolls, the Cb moves outward from the vertical line and rises toward the Cg. Once the Cb rises ABOVE the Cg the ship will not recover from the roll.

IRT to deck guns simply sitting in recesses in the deck, I don't know for sure but it sounds unlikely. The recoil forces and rotational forces of big guns would require them to be firmly mounted. If not so mounted normal movements, however small, would at best destroy accuracy and at worst damage the ship structure.

Warships are simply heavily ballasted to keep that Cb low.

As a sidebar, the USGC has motor lifeboats that are able to capsize, self-right and complete their mission. A combination of ballast and buoyancy augmentation enables self-righting.

47MLB

MS Fowler · #19 04-08-2011, 09:12 AM

There is video somewhere from a few years ago that shows a tug boat rolling completely under as it went under a bridge in flood. It had been ballasted for that very purpose.

MS Fowler · #20 04-08-2011, 09:15 AM

Here is the link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L99vxfu2_Ho

engatwork · #21 04-08-2011, 09:16 AM

Here is the type bearing that would be used on an application like this. They will typically last a long time and I suspect would be designed on a ship to last the life of the vessel.

slewing bearing

Quote:

but the Disney Cruise Line and Virgin America airline ads come up at the top of the thread

lol

Hatterasguy · #22 04-08-2011, 09:21 AM

It depends on the type of vessel, this is a big consideration with older sailing ships since many have been highly modified over the years changing there center of gravity. Also owners tend to want to stick more sails on them and change the rigs which can be interesting.

As for battle ships the turrets are simply sitting in there holes due to there massive weight. Any shipwrecks that rolled should have dropped there turrets out.

MS Fowler · #23 04-08-2011, 09:21 AM

Sorry,

I didn't read "warship"

dynalow · #24 04-08-2011, 10:42 AM

[QUOTE=dynalow;2695342]
As we are men who deal in facts, herewith....

A ship's roll by wave action........
(way too deep for me

)

http://books.google.com/books?id=_lF1DZ1OPJQC&pg=PA266&lpg=PA266&dq=how+far+can+a+navy+ship+roll&source=bl&ots=EdORTy84Ms&sig=3jpS1oFWOdF8b6kfI-vF0WTlIBc&hl=en&ei=4x2fTcetHtKbtwfe2KyaAw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CBwQ6AEwAjgK#v=onepage&q&f=false

SwampYankee · #25 04-08-2011, 10:49 AM

Pretty far.

Stoney · #26 04-08-2011, 11:17 AM

I'm sitting next to a co worker who's daddy is a USN Rear Admiral (Ret.) and he says that the turrets are just sitting on the ring.

There are stories of a Spanish Battleship that sank/rolled in the 1920's and the turrets came off and the guns were later used as Shore Guns on the Northern Spanish coast in fixed emplacements (Vickers 385 CM guns). An Italian Battleship sank and rolled in harbor and stayed that way for close to 10 years. When salvaged, the guns were reused on another ship which was sunk by the Brits in WW2. There is side scan sonar imagry of a French Dreadnought that was sunk prior to WW1 and is sitting on the bottom of the Med. You can clearly see the gun turrets are out of the hull and look like oversized salt and pepper shakers.

He also said that depending on the design, a ship can take over 60 deg of roll. Ocean Racing yachts have a system using a bulbous keel that sits far below the hull and allows the boat to heel over to 80 deg and still be controllable.

Now when you mean roll I am assuming you do not mean Pitch Poling? That is almost always a severe disaster for any boat/ship.

But there are Coast Guard Surf Boats that are designed to fully roll and keep control. The new NYPD Harbor Rescue boat and the new NYFD Fire Boat are designed to roll 360 and go right back to work.

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth

At lunch yesterday we were talking about ships and the subject came up of how far over a warship like a cruiser will roll and still right itself?

Anybody have an idea?

One of my cronies is an ex navy man. He said maybe fortyfive degrees. I thought as long as the ship was undamaged and boyant it would nearly go upside down and still right itself.

Another fellow said the big guns on a ship are just sittting in their places and if the ship goes upside down they will simply fall out. I was skeptical of this but do not know.

I just googled it all and found many many articles on it but no real hard information. ONe artical used an example which showed a ship and said it would go past ninety degrees but at one o seven it would capsize.

mgburg · #27 04-08-2011, 12:52 PM

The Edmund Fitzgerald story was shown on PBS a few years back and the story, apparently, shows that a rogue wave caused the EF's bow to rise up high up and then on the downside side of the wave the bow actually torpedoed into the lakebed of Superior and the stern of the ship (along with the weight of the cargo) caused the EF to snap in half. The whole ship disappeared under the waves in less than 10 seconds or so. No time for anyone to even comprehend what was happening, let alone escape.

The ship was over 700' in length, if I remember correctly and where she lies in Superior is only 500'-600' deep...so the idea that she slammed and snapped is pretty valid. However...there are a few other theories that indicate that the ship might have snapped in half/buckled while on surface and the rogue wave(s) finished her off before anyone had an idea of what exactly happened...including the radioroom. Sorta' like "OHSH!...." *deadly silence*

In a morbid way, it was probably the best for all concerned...no long-time suffering. Sad...

Skid Row Joe · #28 04-08-2011, 03:55 PM

I think the pollen etc. in the air effects everyone to varying degrees.

I'm good flying over Bachman Lake when on final approach at Love Field in Dallas. Lake Pontchartrain, above Louis Armstrong New Orleans airport freaks me out a little. Flying over The Gulf of Mexico on the way to/from Texas to Miami/West Palm Beach Florida for some reason doesn't bother me in the daytime.

I'm planning on travelling to Spain to spend a few months travelling Europe in my coach. I'll probably cruise at least one way. I am not fond of long flights because of the cramped restrooms. It would be an adventure being able to accompany the coach on the cargo ship......but I don't know if that would be allowed. As well as I don't know where (what level) on a ship the coach is stowed either?

Reading Marburg's post relating the Edmund Fitzgerald's demise freaks me out.

A co-worker found an Exxon fuel receipt customer copy signed by one Gordon Lightfoot, in the parking lot of the motel we spent the night at when working on the road in Newport, Arkansas back in the early '70s. My co-worker was from San Juan Capistrano, CA., and that's where the piece of memorabilia is now located on the wall of a bar there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth

Yeah, I am suffering with either allergies or a spring cold and am restless.

So with your fear of water how are you flying over the ocean?

Gordon Lightfoot's song about the Edmund Fitsgerald is a favorite of mine....mournful and musical but based on a true story.

PaulC · #29 04-08-2011, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skid Row Joe

...I'm planning on travelling to Spain to spend a few months travelling Europe in my coach. I'll probably cruise at least one way. I am not fond of long flights because of the cramped restrooms. It would be an adventure being able to accompany the coach on the cargo ship......but I don't know if that would be allowed. As well as I don't know where (what level) on a ship the coach is stowed either?

If I were you, I would seriously consider contacting the cargo ship company and seeing if they will let you stay in the hold with the motorcoach during the voyage. You might save a few bucks.

You indicated that you would cruise at least one way, which begs a few questions:

1. Do you plan to drive back from Europe?

2. Do you plan to abandon the motorcoach somewhere in Europe, and fly back to DFW? As you hate flying over water, you may want to review an atlas and note that large blue expanse wedged in between Dallas and Barcelona. Don't get a window seat.

3. Do you plan to make return transportation arrangements for the motorcoach that are separate from your own? If so, would you have it transported back by ship, or just have Netjet pick it up?

The Swede · #30 04-08-2011, 04:21 PM

Option 3: Netjet, baby.