It's easy to sit around and pontificate when you can still afford to go buy what passes for "food" at the grocery store. It's the big gorilla in the room, and in this country our ignorance of it is going to bite us in the backside sooner rather than later in my opinion.

Sadly, I don't think anyone has a solution, and if anyone does, it'll be so unprofitable that it'll never be implemented.

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You're a daisy if you do.
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84 Euro 240D 4spd. 220.5k sold
04 Honda Element AWD
1985 F150 XLT 4x4, 351W with 270k miles, hay hauler
1997 Suzuki Sidekick 4x4
1993 Toyota 4wd Pickup 226K and counting

Will add to the cost of food significantly. Desal water has to be pumped, uphill, for long distances to be used in ag. Add to that the energy needed for the desal process. It will likely happen more and more but it is not a good solution.

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1986 300SDL, 362K
1984 300D, 138K

Groceries are cheap? Where do you live?

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Desalination = Energy.

More than armed convoys trying to get food shipments thru strife torn tribal areas devolving into poverty driven civil wars?

The reality is that as populations explode groundwater resources will become inadequate for the purpose, not to mention envrionmentally degraded. As noted these things take millions of years to replenish as in the case of the Oglalla aquifer. There are practically unlimited resources of water surrounding every continent. The technology already exisits. The only thing standing it it's way is political will. Money needs to be spent in the quivalent of Manhattan projects to build these plants at the coasts and pump water to where it's needed.

- Peter.

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2021 Chevrolet Spark
Formerly...
2000 GMC Sonoma
1981 240D 4spd stick. 347000 miles. Deceased Feb 14 2021
2002 Kia Rio. Worst crap on four wheels
1981 240D 4spd stick. 389000 miles.
1984 123 200
1979 116 280S
1972 Cadillac Sedan DeVille
1971 108 280S

Desalting can be done, but it is very expensive. I don't see it as a current solution for farming, but it is a solution for life support.

We used to drill wells all the time, but we had some serious equipment to do it with. I guess I am just used to my level of water use when I made that statement.

One problem in drilling a well is that you might hit salt water. Oklahoma has been drilled into so much there are water maps of where to drill for fresh water and where to not drill due to high salt levels.

I wonder.... If political stability could be accomplished could Dams be built in African countries to make better use of Nile resources?

I've been buying canned salmon from Trader Joe's for at least 5 or 6 years. Billed as wild caught Pacific. The price for the 7.5 oz. can stayed at $2.29 for years. I could hardly believe it. Salmon fishing closed right and left. The price has recently gone up to about $2.50. From what I can gather, a lot of people elsewhere would love to have that sort of price increase history.

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1986 300SDL, 362K
1984 300D, 138K

Ultimately all anything needs is enough money thrown at it which in turn is merely a factor of sufficient political will.

- Peter.

__________________
2021 Chevrolet Spark
Formerly...
2000 GMC Sonoma
1981 240D 4spd stick. 347000 miles. Deceased Feb 14 2021
2002 Kia Rio. Worst crap on four wheels
1981 240D 4spd stick. 389000 miles.
1984 123 200
1979 116 280S
1972 Cadillac Sedan DeVille
1971 108 280S

... and sufficient money.

Yes, these are conceptually simple problems; however, we are talking about lots of cost and lots of infrastructure. China, for example, isn't even fully electrified and is currently in the process of building about 20 nuclear generating stations. Nothing is simple when a billion and a quarter people are involved.

Yes but my point is that the countries with massive problems in regards to groundwater are often those that have money. The US for one. China is still a primitive third world country in many ways but it has money, hence your 20 nuke power stations. Dubai has the worlds largest desalinatoin plant. Not one of these countries has a problem with money. If they really regarded it as a necessity the political will would provide the money (with the possible exception of the US which is burdened by democracy). Hence my comment earlier regarding the Manhattan project.

- Peter.

__________________
2021 Chevrolet Spark
Formerly...
2000 GMC Sonoma
1981 240D 4spd stick. 347000 miles. Deceased Feb 14 2021
2002 Kia Rio. Worst crap on four wheels
1981 240D 4spd stick. 389000 miles.
1984 123 200
1979 116 280S
1972 Cadillac Sedan DeVille
1971 108 280S

I'm sure desal will become more widespread but unless it can be done mostly with solar, it will run up against limits of its own.

The ultimate solution IMO is to slow/stop/reverse population growth and furthering use of drip irrigation and the like.

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1986 300SDL, 362K
1984 300D, 138K

uhmm...

I don't see how it useful to pick someone who most folks would agree is at the least imbalanced if not border-line deranged and then based on an association that you make tar another group. That is a fallacious technique called a 'strawman'.

The descendants of Malthus, according to their own writings (Darwin, Sanger, etc) would tend to fall into the category of the left if that simplistic model is going to be used.

But I suggest that the the notion of binary choices left/right is too rigid a categorization for the complexities. It's not unusual, in a fairly short period of time to have myself be accused of being a rightist and then later in the same day a leftist.

For some people (I don't know you and am NOT saying this of you) the world consists of those who either agree or else are the enemy. I certainly would like a third option, or even a fourth.

We have untold options before us. It's going to be very exciting if we can keep our heads.

I do tend to direct uncalled for crap in your direction at times, and you make some good points here. Ehrlich was way off in his predictions, as far as specific dates but the drift of his argument is hard to deny IMO. I think he realizes that his predictions have been incorrect in some ways but correct in others.

I think 'collapse' is perhaps the wrong word as things are not likely to go to hell everywhere all at once. What worries me is tens of thousands of Yemenis per week, for example, embarking for greener pastures when they hit intractable water shortages.

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1986 300SDL, 362K
1984 300D, 138K

Now if you hit the weights with me you could direct all of that crap towards the iron plates...