S&P Downgrades US Debt - Page 9 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

aklim · #**121** 08-09-2011, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Honus

It's hard to see much in the way of meaningful improvements in economic policy without a meaningful change in the culture in DC.

If you don't change the policy of the people, the culture in DC will not change. We gave them the marching orders and they carried out what we said. "Keep the party going, don't be a killjoy." They keep tossing out the bread and running the circuses and every time we have a problem, they make it as painless as possible IN THE SHORT TERM. They were doing what we told them to do. If they tell us that the gravy train stops, we get pissed and fire them. What is it you expect them to do if they want to keep their jobs?

MS Fowler · #**122** 08-09-2011, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

If you don't change the policy of the people, the culture in DC will not change. We gave them the marching orders and they carried out what we said. "Keep the party going, don't be a killjoy." They keep tossing out the bread and running the circuses and every time we have a problem, they make it as painless as possible IN THE SHORT TERM. They were doing what we told them to do. If they tell us that the gravy train stops, we get pissed and fire them. What is it you expect them to do if they want to keep their jobs?

And THATS the reason we have to cut the spending. They will spend, and over- spend any new revenues before they actually are collected.

aklim · #**123** 08-09-2011, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MS Fowler

And THATS the reason we have to cut the spending. They will spend, and over- spend any new revenues before they actually are collected.

If they really cannot work within that budget, raising the taxes is not an issue for me. HOWEVER, that they keep playing these games makes me skeptical if "this time" they will stop the raiding of money pools and be honest with the things. Kinda like a cheating spouse who tells you "THIS TIME it will be different.". Yeah, right. Different from the last 10 times?

Honus · #**124** 08-09-2011, 06:18 PM

It's not as if they haven't balanced a budget before. As I recall, President Clinton had the budget balanced quite nicely, in part because of the tax increases he signed without a single fricking GOP vote.

tjts1 · #**125** 08-09-2011, 06:21 PM

Well you know, GOP have never been fans of balanced budgets in practice. They only make noise about it when they're out of power and desperate to win a few more libertarian votes.

aklim · #**126** 08-09-2011, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Honus

It's not as if they haven't balanced a budget before. As I recall, President Clinton had the budget balanced quite nicely, in part because of the tax increases he signed without a single fricking GOP vote.

What's your point? BTW, did you consider the fact that a lot of states have balanced the budget in some way too. Oh but that is with pools of money shuffled around. Gov Doyle, a Democrat, balanced the budget too but he "borrowed" money from the road tax fund. We currently have a "help the poor get heat" fund that makes the utility companies take money from paying customer's bills and this pool of money goes to pay the DA's office bills. Tobacco Windfall money? Gone to balance budgets.

Is that what YOU call balanced? Sorry, when they have more tricks than Arthur Andersen, it becomes difficult to believe anything they say except to downgrade it further than what they say.

Botnst · #**127** 08-09-2011, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTI

I tried to find out but couldn't . . . how many highways, dams, bridges, harbors, municipal water or waste treatment centers did Carnegie or Rockafeller build? How many has Steve Jobs? Where is the US steel industry presently and where does Jobs build his magical consumer electronics?

It's not a knock against private industry to say that they aren't necessarily the ones in the best position to advance future energy policy or other infrastructure changes.

How many people improved their lives through Carnegie Endowed libraries and arts and humanities?
Ever heard of the Rockafeller Foundation? Does it do any good? For Foundation?
How many sick children have Bill and Melynda Gates healed?

And in Steve Jobs case, he made my life better through his continual challenging of computer and communications paradigms. Not to mention the 1st rate, rock-solid computers I have in my home. I hope he gets even more wealthy, he deserves it.

Oh yeah, I forgot the Post Office, Freddie and Fannie and HUD. Brainchildren of gov.

Botnst · #**128** 08-09-2011, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Honus

It's not as if they haven't balanced a budget before. As I recall, President Clinton had the budget balanced quite nicely, in part because of the tax increases he signed without a single fricking GOP vote.

In part the tax, a small part. But mostly Repo intransigence which forced him to sign their budget after a lengthy gov shutdown that he created. Putting many thousands of gov employees of furlough, where the could do no work, and then paying them afterword. Yeah, Clinton's a great example of leadership.

732002 · #**129** 08-09-2011, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MS Fowler

And THATS the reason we have to cut the spending. They will spend, and over- spend any new revenues before they actually are collected.

I think we all want money to be spent wisely but it can't all be a spending problem. The last time the debt=GDP the top marginal tax rate was raised to 80-90% and the debt declined. The tea party has us convinced that taxes are high now when in fact they have been going lower for 50+ years.

MTI · #**130** 08-09-2011, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

How many people improved their lives through Carnegie Endowed libraries and arts and humanities?
Ever heard of the Rockafeller Foundation? Does it do any good? For Foundation?

How much of that wealth also had the taint of monopolization and antitrust activity, union busting violence and manipulation of governments and people?

Quote:

How many sick children have Bill and Melynda Gates healed?

I don't know, has there been a head count? The foundation's budget is certainly discernable and the investments made cataloged, but is there a measure?

aklim · #**131** 08-09-2011, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 732002

I think we all want money to be spent wisely but it can't all be a spending problem. The last time the debt=GDP the top marginal tax rate was raised
to 80-90% and the debt declined. The tea party has us convinced that taxes are high now when in fact they have been going lower for 50+ years.

The question is that our money is being squandered and we are not getting our money's worth. In the meantime everything is going to hell. So why should we give them more?

Botnst · #**132** 08-09-2011, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTI

1. How much of that wealth also had the taint of monopolization and antitrust activity, union busting violence and manipulation of governments and people?

2. I don't know, has there been a head count? The foundation's budget is certainly discernable and the investments made cataloged, but is there a measure?

1. None. Next?
2. I dunno. You asked what they'd done. That's what they've done. By their own choice, no coercion required.

Honus · #**133** 08-09-2011, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

In part the tax, a small part....

Is that right? I hadn't had a chance to quantify that. Do you have those figures in actual dollars? Or percentages? Give us a link so we can see just how small a part the tax increases made.

732002 · #**134** 08-09-2011, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

The question is that our money is being squandered and we are not getting our money's worth. In the meantime everything is going to hell. So why should we give them more?

You miss the point. "So why should we give them more?" we are giving them
less. Top marginal rates are less than half of what they were 50+ years ago.

"squandered" for the most part no, but we should always work to make it more efficient. There will always be money spent in ways you or I don't agree with.

In the short term raising taxes and cutting spending could send us back into a recession.

Botnst · #**135** 08-09-2011, 09:04 PM

I have something greater than facts! I have my opinion!

I'm willing to bet, with no foreknowledge, that no matter what figures are used, somebody opposing those figures will have a set of their own proving the opposite of whatever either of us cite.