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davidmash · #31 10-19-2011, 12:29 PM

The only thing I saw in my manual about print media was that it needs to be substantiated before you believe it. I guess the conservative manual has no such requirement as is evident by you posts.

Air&Road · #32 10-19-2011, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidmash

The only thing I saw in my manual about print media was that it needs to be substantiated before you believe it. I guess the conservative manual has no such requirement as is evident by you posts.

To begin with, the claim about whether or not any of the lazy kids are being paid is an aside to the main issue and I don't care whether they are or not.

Secondly, I quickly found the ad and posted the link. If you are so worried about whether or not it's true, then go find hard evidence that it is NOT true.

My main point with this issue is that these kids are wanting something for nothing. That's part of the socialist and communist agenda. They need to get off their A$$ and go to work.

tbomachines · #33 10-19-2011, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LarryBible

To begin with, the claim about whether or not any of the lazy kids are being paid is an aside to the main issue and I don't care whether they are or not.

Secondly, I quickly found the ad and posted the link. If you are so worried about whether or not it's true, then go find hard evidence that it is NOT true.

My main point with this issue is that these kids are wanting something for nothing. That's part of the socialist and communist agenda. They need to get off their A$$ and go to work.

First off. There are simply jobs that are NOT available for these people. You standing high on your tower of success (which I am not doubting you earned through hard work...that is not pertinent) and yelling at them that they are lazy slobs is 1) wrong in many cases and 2) not saying much for you. "Start hauling hay"...how nice that would be! If only these minimum wage jobs didn't turn a ton of these folks away for being "overqualified". Keep yelling Larry, keep yelling.

Second. Craigslist is not, nor ever has been a reputable source. Me quoting from wikipedia has gotten some members on here up in a tizzy, how is craigslist and some extreme right wing blog even remotely considered a source? Do I even need to dissect the alleged craiglist ad for you? I'll start, because I know the answer is "yes":

- Craigslist ads can be posted by anyone
- a NYC based liberal group posting an ad for "paid activists" as you have blindly espoused (along with that blog) would be a pretty glaring mistake. I doubt they would be stupid enough
- Nowhere does it say "paid OWS activist" or even really implies that--assuming the post did exist.

MTI · #34 10-19-2011, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LarryBible

It must be written in the Liberal Manual somewhere that when you don't like what you see in print, you just call it a lie. It's a universal trait of private citizens on the left, and ALL politicians regardless of party.

Did you read the ad itself, or just the editorial? The ad is a recruitment for the organization, not for protestors. Again, did you read the ad for yourself?

davidmash · #35 10-19-2011, 12:48 PM

You posted that they are paid and supplied a link (post #20) You made no reference to it's importance.

You made the claim therefore the burden is on you to prove it is true. I personally do not care. Seriously, it's a CL ad.

It is difficult to prove a negative. Far easier to prove a positive. Can you prove that a Platypus is the only mammal who lays eggs? No you cannot because there are thousands of species that have yet to be discovered. You can prove that this is a mammal that does lay eggs.

Air&Road · #36 10-19-2011, 01:04 PM

I will repeat. The ad is an aside issue. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the SEIU or Soros did such a thing, but it is an aside issue and is not really germaine to the problem here.

I will indeed keep yelling as you suggest. These kids need to go home and find some work of some description. The problem is that most of them are not willing to LOWER themselves to do whatever work they can find in order to keep from living off someone else or off of a government hand out.

I've heard it said that this is the worst economic times since the Great Depression and maybe it is, but it still is NOT NEARLY as tough on people as was the Great Depression. During that time there was very little in the way of a safety net. In addition to that, people had a much different attitude about taking "charity," and most people were absolutely ashamed to take a handout at all.

Today is much different. MANY people today expect and even DEMAND a hand out. They have no pride in themselves and feel just fine taking someone elses money instead of going out and starting with a tough and miserable job for a chance to pull themselves up by their boot straps.

I am 62 and lucky enough that I did not have to experience the depression. My parents and many Aunts and Uncles lived it and talked a lot about it. These kids on Wall Street have an absolute bird nest on the ground compared to what MANY folks went through in the thirties.

In fact the way of today's world in a certain way provides many opportunities that were not available in the boom years of the sixties. Today, a young person with a good work ethic that might have only seemed an average worker some years ago, appears to be a super hero as compared to their peers today.

I know several young people that had an attitude for hard work and coupled it with a strong ethic that are doing EXTREMELY well. I met a fellow Friday night that is in his early twenties. I had a chance to get to know him and was quite impressed. He graduated high school and didn't have the money for college. He started working for someone who was cleaning road side parks. He mowed, scrubbed the crappers, washed the sidewalks and so forth. Now ten years later he has the contract himself and is doing very well.

He was standing next to a new Super Duty and I met him because he was buying an airplane in the hangar next to mine. It was not a meager airplane like mine, but an EXPEN$IVE airplane.

All this from not being afraid to scrub a crapper and push a mower. There's alot to be learned from the guy.

Grow up kids and show some gumption! I'm really and truly sorry that you have to start out flipping burgers instead of stepping straight into a fancy office with a six figure compensation package, but go show the world what you're made of how hard you're willing to work instead of being led around by the socialist and communist activists. Best of luck to you all.

tbomachines · #37 10-19-2011, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LarryBible

I will repeat. The ad is an aside issue. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the SEIU or Soros did such a thing, but it is an aside issue and is not really germaine to the problem here.

I will indeed keep yelling as you suggest. These kids need to go home and find some work of some description. The problem is that most of them are not willing to LOWER themselves to do whatever work they can find in order to keep from living off someone else or off of a government hand out.

I've heard it said that this is the worst economic times since the Great Depression and maybe it is, but it still is NOT NEARLY as tough on people as was the Great Depression. During that time there was very little in the way of a safety net. In addition to that, people had a much different attitude about taking "charity," and most people were absolutely ashamed to take a handout at all.

Today is much different. MANY people today expect and even DEMAND a hand out. They have no pride in themselves and feel just fine taking someone elses money instead of going out and starting with a tough and miserable job for a chance to pull themselves up by their boot straps.

I am 62 and lucky enough that I did not have to experience the depression. My parents and many Aunts and Uncles lived it and talked a lot about it. These kids on Wall Street have an absolute bird nest on the ground compared to what MANY folks went through in the thirties.

In fact the way of today's world in a certain way provides many opportunities that were not available in the boom years of the sixties. Today, a young person with a good work ethic that might have only seemed an average worker some years ago, appears to be a super hero as compared to their peers today.

I know several young people that had an attitude for hard work and coupled it with a strong ethic that are doing EXTREMELY well. I met a fellow Friday night that is in his early twenties. I had a chance to get to know him and was quite impressed. He graduated high school and didn't have the money for college. He started working for someone who was cleaning road side parks. He mowed, scrubbed the crappers, washed the sidewalks and so forth. Now ten years later he has the contract himself and is doing very well.

He was standing next to a new Super Duty and I met him because he was buying an airplane in the hangar next to mine. It was not a meager airplane like mine, but an EXPEN$IVE airplane.

All this from not being afraid to scrub a crapper and push a mower. There's alot to be learned from the guy.

Grow up kids and show some gumption! I'm really and truly sorry that you have to start out flipping burgers instead of stepping straight into a fancy office with a six figure compensation package, but go show the world what you're made of how hard you're willing to work instead of being led around by the socialist and communist activists. Best of luck to you all.

So Larry, what do you tell the "lazy kids" who have applied to numerous minimum wage jobs as a last resort and been rejected every time for being "overqualified"?

I use "overqualified" in quotes because it is a crock of BS (and I suspect you would agree with me) but it is happening, making it VERY hard to get jobs for these folks.

MTI · #38 10-19-2011, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LarryBible

Grow up kids and show some gumption! I'm really and truly sorry that you have to start out flipping burgers instead of stepping straight into a fancy office with a six figure compensation package, but go show the world what you're made of how hard you're willing to work instead of being led around by the socialist and communist activists. Best of luck to you all.

Wow, it must have been those kids fault that the elected officials, in office before they were born, or banking officials, again old enough to be their grandparents, screwed up their futures. Didn't they know that? What ingrates.

Then there's those close to retirement, having lost their jobs, nest eggs and retirement savings, what a bunch of whiners. It's never too late to start all over again, flipping burgers, forking hay, making themselves useful.

BTW: The term "gumption" in any post says so much, but not nearly as much as "dang nabbit."

Air&Road · #39 10-19-2011, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTI

Wow, it must have been those kids fault that the elected officials, in office before they were born, or banking officials, again old enough to be their grandparents, screwed up their futures. Didn't they know that? What ingrates.

Then there's those close to retirement, having lost their jobs, nest eggs and retirement savings, what a bunch of whiners. It's never too late to start all over again, flipping burgers, forking hay, making themselves useful.

BTW: The term "gumption" in any post says so much, but not nearly as much as "dang nabbit."

You just described my recent situation. About 10 years ago, the industry in which I realized great success started really falling on its face. I hung on and took lower level jobs in the industry until it dried up altogether. At that point I ended up taking a job as a Fork Truck mechanic and worked my out of that job into something better.

Through all this I did not squander my retirement savings and scaled back to live within my means. I was in a tough spot and did what I had to do and was not afraid to get sprayed with hydraulic oil and have grease almost permanently under my fingernails.

I am now less than four years from retirement and there's no guarantee I won't have to push a lawn mower or haul hay before it's all over. If that's what it takes, then that's what I will do.

SO, don't give me any of this kind of "you can suggest it, but you can't do it" crap!

Was it those kids fault that they hit a bad time in the economy to try to start a career? Of course not! They have been dealt a really crappy poker hand. They can choose to play that hand and do what they have to do, or be a bunch of whimpy babies and lay around waiting for someone to come and spoon feed them. Most people, especially myself, will do whatever we can to help someone when they are trying to help themselves. When someone thinks they're too important or too educated or too high class or their just too plain old lazy to try to help themselves, most people are not anxious to help them.

Air&Road · #40 10-19-2011, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tbomachines

So Larry, what do you tell the "lazy kids" who have applied to numerous minimum wage jobs as a last resort and been rejected every time for being "overqualified"?

I use "overqualified" in quotes because it is a crock of BS (and I suspect you would agree with me) but it is happening, making it VERY hard to get jobs for these folks.

I tell them to do what I did. In the Summer borrow a lawn mower until you can get enough together to buy your own. Borrow a snow shovel and shovel snow in the Winter.

My brother as a teenager went to the corner convenience store and asked if he could sweep up for a dime. It led to clerking there, then clerking at a super market, then running the super market. Now he runs the biggest Petro Truck Stop I've ever seen. They pump so much diesel fuel that there are almost always tankers filling their underground tanks. They have a McDonalds AND a Taco fast food (I don't remember which one) under the roof. He couldn't afford college but has been more successful than the vast majority of college grads.

There is still a convenience store somewhere that needs the floor swept or the parking lot washed down. There is SOMETHING for those who don't have a yellow streak running down their back when it comes to honest work.

SwampYankee · #41 10-19-2011, 01:45 PM

Just so I'm clear,

Tea Party=Rash generalizations good.
Occupiers=Rash generalizations bad?

I think there's some common ground between the two groups and can relate with parts of both. If we don't wish for one of the groups to be defined by their fringes, don't define the other one by their own fringes.

Although I guess that grey does make it more difficult to rile up the opponent than black and white.

tbomachines · #42 10-19-2011, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SwampYankee

Just so I'm clear,

Tea Party=Rash generalizations good.
Occupiers=Rash generalizations bad?

I think there's some common ground between the two groups and can relate with parts of both. If we don't wish for one of the groups to be defined by their fringes, don't define the other one by their own fringes.

Although I guess that grey does make it more difficult to rile up the opponent than black and white.

Yup, they both start with the general thought that the economy is bad...so lets do something about it. The way to get out of the current situation seems vastly different though

. One big key difference is the area of funding. The Tea Party has a lot of money behind it, the TP Express bus, etc. I would suspect their public support of capitalism earns them some big bucks (great business model for a nonprofit too) but that would be nothing without the individual supporters. It'll be interesting to see how the issue of funding turns out for OWS, at the moment it seems to be mainly volunteers but in comparison to the TP, they are relatively young and are only beginning to gain traction.

Air&Road · #43 10-19-2011, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SwampYankee

Just so I'm clear,

Tea Party=Rash generalizations good.
Occupiers=Rash generalizations bad?

I think there's some common ground between the two groups and can relate with parts of both. If we don't wish for one of the groups to be defined by their fringes, don't define the other one by their own fringes.

Although I guess that grey does make it more difficult to rile up the opponent than black and white.

And what rash generalizations about the Tea Party are you referring. They are pretty clear that their main focus is getting the financial house in order.

tbomachines · #44 10-19-2011, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LarryBible

I tell them to do what I did. In the Summer borrow a lawn mower until you can get enough together to buy your own. Borrow a snow shovel and shovel snow in the Winter.

My brother as a teenager went to the corner convenience store and asked if he could sweep up for a dime. It led to clerking there, then clerking at a super market, then running the super market. Now he runs the biggest Petro Truck Stop I've ever seen. They pump so much diesel fuel that there are almost always tankers filling their underground tanks. They have a McDonalds AND a Taco fast food (I don't remember which one) under the roof. He couldn't afford college but has been more successful than the vast majority of college grads.

There is still a convenience store somewhere that needs the floor swept or the parking lot washed down. There is SOMETHING for those who don't have a yellow streak running down their back when it comes to honest work.

Yes, of course its so easy to tell someone to do this. You find me a convenience store in Philly or NYC that will let someone work for free and I'll believe you THEN. Any store owner I know would rather work a 12-15 hour day (most of them already do actually) instead of hire a college kid working for free. Why? Because they know the kid is going to expect to be paid at some point, or the fact that he/she is doing it for free raises a few eyebrows (stealing, expecting payment under the table, etc). And, don't forget that these college grads are up against anyone age 14+ who doesn't actually have bills to pay.

While I think about it one major hurtle is the hubris of hiring managers. A supermarket manager who has no formal education for example, might be a bit cautious in hiring someone who has a degree in business management. Instead of getting a foot in the door, the cycle continues. This happens a LOT.

BTW - By no means am I saying you can't be successful without a college degree. There are plenty of ways to be successful so long as you accept the fact that you'll never be a medical doctor, lawyer, scientist, teacher (at least beyond preschool), etc. It totally depends on what one's measure of "success" is.

Air&Road · #45 10-19-2011, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tbomachines

Yes, of course its so easy to tell someone to do this. You find me a convenience store in Philly or NYC that will let someone work for free and I'll believe you THEN. Any store owner I know would rather work a 12-15 hour day (most of them already do actually) instead of hire a college kid working for free. Why? Because they know the kid is going to expect to be paid at some point, or the fact that he/she is doing it for free raises a few eyebrows (stealing, expecting payment under the table, etc). And, don't forget that these college grads are up against anyone age 14+ who doesn't actually have bills to pay.

While I think about it one major hurtle is the hubris of hiring managers. A supermarket manager who has no formal education for example, might be a bit cautious in hiring someone who has a degree in business management. Instead of getting a foot in the door, the cycle continues. This happens a LOT.

BTW - By no means am I saying you can't be successful without a college degree. There are plenty of ways to be successful so long as you accept the fact that you'll never be a medical doctor, lawyer, scientist, teacher (at least beyond preschool), etc. It totally depends on what one's measure of "success" is.

I never said my brother worked for free. He offered to sweep out the store for a dime. He showed them that he worked hard and could be trusted.

No, he is not a doctor or a lawyer (thank goodness not a lawyer) or any other so called professional. I graduated from college and didn't do much better than he has.

I don't care if there are stores on the corner or not. That was only one example. If there are people then there are things that need to be done. Not glorified jobs, but a means to make a few bucks and start meeting people and networking. There is grass to mow and snow to shovel. If you're too lazy for any of this kind of work then starve.