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  #16  
Old 10-23-2011, 07:29 AM
Medmech's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Local2ED View Post
Walmartstores.com: Investor Relations - Walmart Reports Fourth Quarter and Fiscal Year 2010 Results

Spare me the psuedo-capitalist, bootstrap pulling nonsense this story is still a damn shame like it or not.

Like it or not your post fell flat on its intended face, Its good advertising for Walmarts health plan which according to the article that you posted is better than most health plans.

I think you have been out of the job market too long.

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  #17  
Old 10-23-2011, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Botnst View Post
Why do companies subsidize health insurance? It's stupid system because it has no feedback loop. This encourages increased costs. Like education. Any transaction that doesn't have a feedback will accelerate.
Doesn't that practice date back to WW2? I think companies began to offer HC as incentive. Workers were scarce and many employers needed more workers.

As to why it continues past that time, I don't know.
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  #18  
Old 10-23-2011, 09:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Botnst View Post
Why do companies subsidize health insurance? It's stupid system because it has no feedback loop. This encourages increased costs. Like education. Any transaction that doesn't have a feedback will accelerate.
Sorry, could you please explain what you mean by feedback loop?
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  #19  
Old 10-23-2011, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by MS Fowler View Post
Doesn't that practice date back to WW2? I think companies began to offer HC as incentive. Workers were scarce and many employers needed more workers.

As to why it continues past that time, I don't know.
Because employees and prospective employees have come to expect it?
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  #20  
Old 10-23-2011, 10:51 AM
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What many don't understand is that, sometimes it's cheaper to buy your own health insurance than to pay for what's offered by the employer. Twice in the last 20 years, I've found that going to the local Chamber of Commerce will net you a better coverage plan for less money...sometimes large savings. You need to understand that employers sometimes, unknowingly, overcharge for coverage.

People have grown too accustomed to their net pay, not their gross pay. They know what they bring home each week, but have no idea what their weekly wage is.

My point...shop around for coverage...you'll be surprised at what you can actually afford.
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  #21  
Old 10-23-2011, 11:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Medmech View Post
Like it or not your post fell flat on its intended face
How do you know what its "intended face" was?
Quote:
Its good advertising for Walmarts health plan which according to the article that you posted is better than most health plans...
The article quoted a Walmart spokesman as saying that the plan is better than most. Assuming that to be true, then the article supports the view that workers are getting screwed in this country. Walmart workers will get hammered by these changes and yet they are still better off than most. The article also says that Walmart's changes will encourage its competitors to follow suit, thereby screwing the workers even more. I'm not sure if that was Local's intended point, but it seems like a good point to me.
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  #22  
Old 10-23-2011, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Honus View Post
How do you know what its "intended face" was?The article quoted a Walmart spokesman as saying that the plan is better than most. Assuming that to be true, then the article supports the view that workers are getting screwed in this country. Walmart workers will get hammered by these changes and yet they are still better off than most. The article also says that Walmart's changes will encourage its competitors to follow suit, thereby screwing the workers even more. I'm not sure if that was Local's intended point, but it seems like a good point to me.
Ding,ding, ding, we have a winner!
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  #23  
Old 10-23-2011, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Honus View Post
How do you know what its "intended face" was?The article quoted a Walmart spokesman as saying that the plan is better than most. Assuming that to be true, then the article supports the view that workers are getting screwed in this country. Walmart workers will get hammered by these changes and yet they are still better off than most. The article also says that Walmart's changes will encourage its competitors to follow suit, thereby screwing the workers even more. I'm not sure if that was Local's intended point, but it seems like a good point to me.
There's no "screwing" going on here...it's an opportunity for the employees to shop around for their coverage. There are people that have great health, are rarely sick, have no physical ailments, and don't need the coverage offered. Those individuals are often times able to find better coverage for less. Think about this...men don't need pap smears and mammograms, but pay for coverage that covers it.

I see a strong upside to all of this...education of the masses on the subject of insurance pricing.
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  #24  
Old 10-23-2011, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MS Fowler View Post
Doesn't that practice date back to WW2? I think companies began to offer HC as incentive. Workers were scarce and many employers needed more workers.

As to why it continues past that time, I don't know.
...and the mantra" I don't have it so nobody should" plays on.
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  #25  
Old 10-23-2011, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by t walgamuth View Post
Sorry, could you please explain what you mean by feedback loop?
Is it the general concept you would like explained? That's simple enough.

You drive a car down the road. Your choice is to accelerate, maintain velocity, or decelerate.

The control system is mediated by you choice.

If the road is bumpy and you accelerate you will get feedback from the road. The feedback will tend to increase the likelihood that you will get off the gas pedal, the opposite of your original intention, hence negative feedback.

Positive feedback is when there is no negative consequence of your behavior. Like the road is smooth and wide and somebody else pays your tickets and fuel. Why not push that roadster a little bit? Aw hell, why not push it a lot?

In healthcare, the negative feedback is from the consumer. If you pay for your own healthcare (absent subsidy from a corporation or expense averaging by insurance) you have incentive to watch the cost, question the necessity of various tests, and seek generic drugs rather than name brand.

The negative feedback is modulated by buying insurance. You still pay, but it's spread over time so it isn't as startling. But if you are insured out-of-pocket you still have an incentive to hold costs down -- a negative feedback loop.

If somebody else is paying your bill like say a gilded health insurance paid by your employer or medicare/medicaid, then there is a very small negative feedback and you're likely to accept whatever a physician says without question and you may choose to prolong life far beyond it's reasonable conclusion, damn the expense (to somebody else).
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  #26  
Old 10-23-2011, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by chilcutt View Post
Bad mood ?
Amused
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  #27  
Old 10-23-2011, 02:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jplinville View Post
There's no "screwing" going on here...
I think there is a lot of screwing of the workers. Whether Walmart is responsible for that is debatable, but there are way too many people in this country busting their humps with no shot of getting ahead. That's a shame. I don't pretend to know what to do about it.
Quote:
it's an opportunity for the employees to shop around for their coverage...
Opportunity? That's a bit euphemistic.
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  #28  
Old 10-23-2011, 02:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Honus View Post
I think there is a lot of screwing of the workers. Whether Walmart is responsible for that is debatable, but there are way too many people in this country busting their humps with no shot of getting ahead. That's a shame. I don't pretend to know what to do about it.Opportunity? That's a bit euphemistic.
I blame the unions for artificially inflating wages, which increases the cost of the finished product. $35 an hour to chase wire harnesses on an assembly line is way too much.

Once wages settle down, then the price of product will settle down. It's a matter of supply and demand.

But, there's plenty of blame to go around...government regs, increased wages, etc. Keeping government out of things is the first and cheapest thing all around to do.
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Meet on the level, leave on the square. Great words to live by

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  #29  
Old 10-23-2011, 08:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jplinville View Post
I blame the unions for artificially inflating wages, which increases the cost of the finished product. $35 an hour to chase wire harnesses on an assembly line is way too much.

Once wages settle down, then the price of product will settle down. It's a matter of supply and demand.

But, there's plenty of blame to go around...government regs, increased wages, etc. Keeping government out of things is the first and cheapest thing all around to do.
Now thats funny.
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  #30  
Old 10-23-2011, 08:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Local2ED View Post
...and the mantra" I don't have it so nobody should" plays on.
Huh?
Are you implying that is what I posted?

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