Freezing pipes question - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

The Clk Man · #1 12-11-2011, 01:55 PM

On the back side of my commercial building, there is a small apartment. There is a small crawl space under the apartment. Last winter the pipes froze and busted the pipes and cost me $500 in water and sewerage. I have a small heater under the building now. Can you guys/gals tell me what the best way to keep the exposed plumbing protected. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

spdrun · #2 12-11-2011, 01:57 PM

Insulate the pipes and use an electric pipe heating cable.

Pavka007 · #3 12-11-2011, 02:11 PM

You could insulate them with hay...I am serious. Pack them tight and wrap black plastic bag around. The hay generate heat and keep them warm enough. Years ago I was in Russia (work related) and the people of small villages with tabs outside in the front garden were doing this. With temperatures running from 10 to -10F the pipes were still working.

The Clk Man · #4 12-11-2011, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spdrun

Insulate the pipes and use an electric pipe heating cable.

I insulated the pipes before and they still froze and busted. Can you lead me towards the electric pipe heating cable you speak of?

The Clk Man · #5 12-11-2011, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pavka007

You could insulate them with hay...I am serious. Pack them tight and wrap black plastic bag around. The hay generate heat and keep them warm enough. Years ago I was in Russia (work related) and the people of small villages with tabs outside in the front garden were doing this. With temperatures running from 10 to -10F the pipes were still working.

The business next door to me sells hay. Maybe I'll try that.

elchivito · #6 12-11-2011, 02:58 PM

electric pipe tape. Any Ace hardware should have it. Pre-set to come on at 32 degrees or something so it's not costing you electricity all the time. My barn pipes are all taped. Never a problem.

The Clk Man · #7 12-11-2011, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elchivito

electric pipe tape. Any Ace hardware should have it. Pre-set to come on at 32 degrees or something so it's not costing you electricity all the time. My barn pipes are all taped. Never a problem.

Do you put the tape directly on the pipe? or can you wrap the tape around the insulation that is already on the pipes?

The Clk Man · #8 12-11-2011, 03:18 PM

Also, do I need to put the heat cable on all of the piping or will the heated area keep all of the pipes warm?

barry123400 · #9 12-11-2011, 03:22 PM

Tape has to go on the water pipes. Then the insulation. Otherwise any thermostat would be on too much if there is one. Plus on the outside of the insulation it pretty well defeats the purpose basically. Yes unfortunatly all the exposed copper pipes will have to be done basically.

You kind of mentioned the drain froze up as well? A five hundred dollar plumbing charge might indicate this. The local plumber you used should have made some recommendations as well at the time of the last repair. So if everything else is normal it might have been a drain trap that froze.

You should only have to keep the trap thawed.Depending on the plumbing arrangement you might be able to move it upstairs into the apartment. As long as the drains have some down slope they should not freeze. One quarter inch drop to the foot is ideal but you can get by with less. Just use a level on the drain pipes if visually you cannot see any downward slope towards the egress point.

The Clk Man · #10 12-11-2011, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barry123400

Tape has to go on the water pipes. Then the insulation. Otherwise any thermostat would be on too much if there is one. Plus on the outside of the insulation it pretty well defeats the purpose basically.

You kind of mentioned the drain froze up as well? A five hundred dollar plumbing charge might indicate this. The local plumber you used should have made some recommendations as well at the time of the last repair. So if everything else is normal it might have been a drain trap that froze.

You should only have to keep the trap thawed or depending on the plumbing arrangement you might be able to move it upstairs into the apartment. As long as the drains have some down slope they should not freeze. One quarter inch drop to the foot is ideal but you can get by with less. Just use a level on the drain pipes if visually you cannot see any slope.

I will look into that, thank you Sir.

barry123400 · #11 12-11-2011, 03:32 PM

Depending on the way the unit is constructed. You might be able to re run the water pipes in heated space. Outside walls are never the best.

Usually though if good insulation is behind the pipes. Plus low air movement is present you can get by in outside walls.

Another thing I forgot to mention although I have never used them. If I were contemplating a heat tape fix. I would jump to the next option. You solder a fitting in the copper line and the heat element wire slides inside the pipe. This theoretically should be the cheapest to run depending on the cost. I have seen them but never used them.

If you were able to place say a twenty gallon water heater inside the apartment then you would have only one water feeder pipe to protect. This suggestion is kind of a quantum leap without knowing what you have exactly. Major changes to systems go from very easily done to virtually impossible or impractical.

The Clk Man · #12 12-11-2011, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barry123400

Depending on the way the unit is constructed. You might be able to re run the water pipes in heated space. Outside walls are never the best.

Usually though if good insulation is behind the pipes. Plus low air movement is present you can get by in outside walls.

Another thing I forgot to mention although I have never used them. If I were contemplating a heat tape fix. I would jump to the next option. You solder a fitting in the copper line and the heat element wire slides inside the pipe. This theoretically should be the cheapest to run depending on the cost. I have seen them but never used them.

If you were able to place say a twenty gallon water heater inside the apartment then you would have only one water feeder pipe to protect. This suggestion is kind of a quantum leap without knowing what you have exactly. Major changes to systems go from very easily done to virtually impossible or impractical.

The apartment is small, maybe 250 square feet. one pipe goes to the kitchen sink, one goes to the bathtub and small sink and a third pipe goes to the hot water heater.