Even though you did not have a written contract with them, I would be curious to know whether there might be some other basis for their claim. For example, does the marina have any rules or policies written down anywhere? Did they ever send you an invoice with fine print suggesting that you are responsible for the fees, regardless of your sale to the other guy? If they have anything like that in place and you went along with it by paying your monthly fees without protest, then you might have a contract with them without even knowing it. I would also be interested to see whether there is any state or local statutes or ordinances on the matter.

Looking at it from the marina's perspective, it seems unfair that someone could walk away from a boat without making sure that someone is ready, willing, and able to take over the payments.

No signed contract with the marina ever. It's a small rural marina with a laxadaisical owner. I also never saw any terms posted anywhere. I too am curious about the venue. Don't know how that works. I also don't know if a person is required to go to a small claims court of the $ amount is less than x or if district court is an immediate option. I doubt the $$ would exceed small claims amounts. A year's storage was well under $1k. Don't know the costs for cutting up and disposing of a fiberglass boat but the lead in the keel is worth over $1k so I seriously doubt the cost would be that high.
Another odd feature of the letter is that I have received no bills from the marina regarding storage and disposal. That's another reason why I suspect bluster. How can anyone initiate a claim against a person without billing them for payment?
I think what's going on is that the marina owner suspects he won't get any payments from the new owner and in a pre-emptive strike is trying to get me to pay upfront for non-existent storage and disposal costs.

No fine print on any invoices. Invoices came on invoice sheets from the local office supply store. I did sell the boat under the condition that the new owner now was responsible for any costs associated with it. That was the whole basis of the deal, especially the price.
I am curious about local or state laws on this topic.

__________________
1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13

The plaintiff always has the option of using district court, independent of the amount. However, the tolerance for people without a law degree is minimal in district court and it is very unlikely that a pro-se action can prevail there. Usually, this is the purvey of attorneys. However, be assured that no attorney is going to bother with this case for $1K. I don't believe you can get an attorney to take a case to district court for anything less than $10K. It's just not worth his time.

At this juncture, I would simply ignore him. He cannot take you to small claims court as your address is not in NY State. He will not take you to district court as no attorney will take the case.

Cool 1st year law school exam question. Contracts, civil procedure and some equitable issues.

Jurisdiction is pretty clear, there was property in the Empire State which creates sufficient jurisdiction in the NY courts. The choice of court will depend on the amount of damages of the civil claim.

Clearly, there was a contract between Buyer K and the marina. A writing may not exist, but can be inferred by the evidence of the tender of payment in response to an invoice. Buyer K, once he took title, was responsible for all expenses, past and future, unless the sale contract from his seller conveyed it "free and clear" as of the date of the transfer.

Likewise, Buyer K's subsequent buyer, became responsible for all expenses, past and future, unless he took the property "free and clear" under that sale.

The marina, therefor has a choice of defendants to pursue, Buyer K or the subsequent buyer. Between the two defendants, each will have to assert their defense that the debt owned to the marina was, or was not, extinguished by the subsequent sale.

The subsequent buyer will have to show that his surrender of the title to the boat was a contract between him and the buyer, otherwise it would be a mere abandonment, so that the marina would still have a claim against subsequent buyer if there is a shortfall between the value of the abandoned property and the amounts owed.

I would caution against the unlicensed practice of law, including the giving of legal advice, even when no monies are involved. Service by mail or by publication could be an option in NY and a NY judgment can be recorded in other states and will certainly appear on a credit search.

Some important modifications. At the time of my sale, I had not paid the summer storage bill. So there was a debt at that point. Two weeks after the sale, I paid my summer storage bill with a check, with 'final storage payment' in the memo line. I also notified the marina with that final payment that there was a new owner. So, as I see it, there is currently either no debt on the boat, or at least only the debt for this winter's storage. I don't know if the current owner has received an invoice for winter storage yet. I know I haven't. All I've gotten is a threatening letter.

I do agree that I had an unwritten contract with the marina to pay storage costs while I owned the boat and it was at the marina. I don't see how my unwritten contract can continue once I've sold the boat. If that were the case, any previous owner of a boat at the marina would still be liable for costs associated with a boat they sold.

__________________
1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13

Thanks for your concern, but I have no worries that Kerry is going to sue me for incorrect information.

There is no option for service by mail or publication in NY small claims. As I stated, district court would be the only viable option, although not a practical one with respect to the monies involved.

These questions are for lawyers to argue in court.

I see it as a practical matter at this point. The options of the marina to recover money from you are limited, unless they can manage to raise the amount owed to a value for which an attorney will be interested.

Well since a document other than a bill was served you. It tends to indicate there was and probably still is an issue with the new owner.Unless the yard owner is double storage billing.

We cannot think of every contingency at any given time. I would contact the new owner to attempt to settle this. In my eyes you do not still own the boat. Nor have the legal position of even being able to touch it mind order the disposal of it. Disposal of the remaining carcass seems to be the issue now with storage bills growing.

If things cannot be settled up with the current owner perhaps just establishing it is not your property with the boat yards lawyer might just quiet the issue. Especially if you prove the yard owner was well aware of this at the time of sale.

Paying the new storage bill would just tend to put you more on the hook for the disposal costs in my opinion. By paying it you tend to confirm it is your liability. That does not settle the real issue anyways.

It was up to the yard owner to make arrangements with the new owner as soon as he was aware you no longer owned it. Or telling you the boat could no longer remain on site. Demanding removal or whatever arrangement was desired at that time. . So his negligence in not doing so is very important.

It would have been different if the yard owner was not aware you had sold the boat. Attempting to hold you to account for his obvious negligence will not fly well in the long haul in my opinion. You have not abandoned it either in my opinion. It is not yours to do so. Your bill of sale did specify it was the whole boat you sold.

Remember that I am not a lawyer though. We do have lawyers on site. My thoughts are just what I may attempt or do. I know little of the law yet negligence always has a nice ring to it.

If the marina cashed that check, it might have resulted in what the law calls an accord and satisfaction, which would mean that you have no further liability. I have no idea what NY law is on that point, so I am just throwing it out there as an idea.I hear you on that point, but I am not sure it is the whole story. For example, what would happen if you decided that you didn't want the boat so you gave it to someone who you know can't and won't pay the storage charges. Could you just walk away, leaving the marina unable to lease out that space to another boat owner? I don't know the answer to that question, just throwing it out there.

Kerry's ire isn't required; rather it's the state bar association that could bring an action on its own accord. Technically, any attorney who is licensed in the state, either Colorado or New York, is bound by their ethical to report it

It would help to know what county or township the marina is in, however in New York City, mail is the means of notice.

After your claim is filed, the Small Claims Court clerk will serve a notice of your claim by sending it to the defendant. The notice of claim tells the defendant when to appear in Small Claims Court, and includes a brief statement of your claim and the amount of money you are requesting.

The notice of your claim will be sent to the defendant by certified mail and by ordinary first class mail. If the notice sent by ordinary first class mail is not returned by the post office within 21 days as undeliverable, the defendant is presumed to have received notice of your claim, even if the notice of claim sent by certified mail has not been delivered.

If the post office cannot deliver the notice of your claim (for example, the defendant may have moved without leaving a forwarding address), the court clerk will give you a new hearing date and will tell you how to arrange for personal delivery of the notice to the defendant. Anyone who is not a party to the small claim and who is 18 years of age or older can personally deliver the notice of claim to the defendant. The claimant or any other party to the action may not serve the notice of claim personally on the defendant.

If the notice of claim cannot be served on the defendant within 4 months after you filed your claim, your claim will be dismissed. If you learn new information about the defendant’s location at a later date, you can file your claim again.

Thanks, but I think I'll take that risk...............




There wasn't any disagreement on the means of notice. As far as I am aware, USPS is the means of notice to the defendant for all small claim actions in NY State.

The statement I made regarding the small claim action is that it must be done in the domicile of the defendant. You cannot go to a court in Suffolk County, file the claim, and have them mail the notice to someone in Nassau County. I've been though this exact scenario recently.

I make the conclusion that you cannot sue someone in small claims court in NY if the person does not live in NY.

That's fine, but I still caution other about practicing law, including giving legal advice on an internet forum, without a license.

What is the basis of this conclusion? Is there some statute that prevents a NY resident from bringing a small claims action against a seller in NJ that advertises and sells products in NY? If so, then there's the perfect shelter for any of those telemarketers, "as seen on TV" companies or other interstate business, since they would not meet the qualifications for superior court. At the present, I'm unaware of any state whose small claims court limits its jurisdiction between residents.

Looks like NYS small claims court permits service by mail:

http://www.nycourts.gov/courts/townandvillage/pdfs/SmallClaimsHandbook.pdf

__________________
1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13

I am not an attorney, ......but I did sleep in a Holiday Inn last year!

I also know several attorneys and judges.

As a practical matter I have two comments I have found in my own business experience.

1. any time you write final payment on a check and the party cashes it it is my understanding that that is all there is to it.

2. Any judgement against a party which does not own real property in the state of the judgement is worth about as much as the paper it is printed on. (nothing) because your chance of receiving payment on it are slim and none.

Good luck.

__________________
[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.