Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum > General Discussions > Off-Topic Discussion

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02-10-2012, 08:57 PM
jplinville's Avatar
Conservative
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Dayton, Ohio region
Posts: 305
Geothermal versus Fracking...

Does Geothermal Power Cause Earthquakes? | Popular Science

I'm not an expert, but from what I see, it doesn't seem much different, in theory. Drill a deep hole, pump high pressure water to form cracks in the rock, bring hot water up to warm house or run turbine.

Wouldn't both bring possible hydrocarbons into the water supply?

__________________
1987 560SL
85,000 miles




Meet on the level, leave on the square. Great words to live by

Were we directed from Washington when to sow and when to reap, we should soon want bread. - Thomas Jefferson: Autobiography, 1821.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 02-10-2012, 09:09 PM
layback40's Avatar
Not Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Victoria Australia - down under!!
Posts: 4,023
The geothermal is not done in hydrocarbon containing formations.
It normally uses granite formations that contain low levels of uranium, hence the heat. The water is heated by the formation, it does not frack the formation. Well at least that is the case on this side of the pond.

Fracking is drilling into formations such as coal & fracturing the formation to allow any hydrocarbon to be released. The type that is in question at the moment is normally shallow depth and can be close to ground water.

Conventional oil/gas wells into low porosity formations are "fracked" as well. This used to be called proving the well. Often with explosive charges to help the recovery rates.
__________________
Grumpy Old Diesel Owners Club group

I no longer question authority, I annoy authority. More effect, less effort....

1967 230-6 auto parts car. rust bucket.
1980 300D now parts car 800k miles
1984 300D 500k miles
1987 250td 160k miles English import
2001 jeep turbo diesel 130k miles
1998 jeep tdi ~ followed me home. Needs a turbo.
1968 Ford F750 truck. 6-354 diesel conversion.
Other toys ~J.D.,Cat & GM ~ mainly earth moving
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 02-10-2012, 09:13 PM
buffa98's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Amish Country, PA
Posts: 296
A neighbor has a geo thermal. I went over when they were installing it and here what I can say. The GT system is a closed loop system. He has 2 375 ft deep loops for heating and cooling. All the glycol is the tube either heats or cools the house via a heat exchanger/air handler.

Fracing if I understand the process uses High pressure to "FRACTURE" the shale to release the gas.
__________________
86 300SDL. 250,xxx on #14 Head. One eye always on temp gauge.. Cruising towards 300K
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 02-10-2012, 09:14 PM
jplinville's Avatar
Conservative
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Dayton, Ohio region
Posts: 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by layback40 View Post
The geothermal is not done in hydrocarbon containing formations.
It normally uses granite formations that contain low levels of uranium, hence the heat. The water is heated by the formation, it does not frack the formation. Well at least that is the case on this side of the pond.

Fracking is drilling into formations such as coal & fracturing the formation to allow any hydrocarbon to be released. The type that is in question at the moment is normally shallow depth and can be close to ground water.

Conventional oil/gas wells into low porosity formations are "fracked" as well. This used to be called proving the well. Often with explosive charges to help the recovery rates.
Interesting...but both seem to cause earthquakes, no?
__________________
1987 560SL
85,000 miles




Meet on the level, leave on the square. Great words to live by

Were we directed from Washington when to sow and when to reap, we should soon want bread. - Thomas Jefferson: Autobiography, 1821.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 02-10-2012, 09:15 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: beautiful Bucks Co, PA
Posts: 961
Quote:
Originally Posted by jplinville View Post
Does Geothermal Power Cause Earthquakes? | Popular Science

I'm not an expert, but from what I see, it doesn't seem much different, in theory. Drill a deep hole, pump high pressure water to form cracks in the rock, bring hot water up to warm house or run turbine.

Wouldn't both bring possible hydrocarbons into the water supply?
While we do disagree on much, I can agree you are not an expert.
I did not read anything in the linked article about geothermal inducing hydrocarbons into the water supply.
The gist of the article was geothermal drilling causing earthquakes.
Fracking has been cited as a reson for earthquakes and the contamination of ground water supplies. I did not read of a connection between the two operations in the linked article.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 02-10-2012, 09:19 PM
layback40's Avatar
Not Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Victoria Australia - down under!!
Posts: 4,023
Quote:
Originally Posted by jplinville View Post
Interesting...but both seem to cause earthquakes, no?
I have always believed that earth quakes are caused by the movement of techtonic plates in the earth's crust.
If there was a very minor tremor as things settled after fracking, you could probably make a connection. A proper quake is unlikely.
__________________
Grumpy Old Diesel Owners Club group

I no longer question authority, I annoy authority. More effect, less effort....

1967 230-6 auto parts car. rust bucket.
1980 300D now parts car 800k miles
1984 300D 500k miles
1987 250td 160k miles English import
2001 jeep turbo diesel 130k miles
1998 jeep tdi ~ followed me home. Needs a turbo.
1968 Ford F750 truck. 6-354 diesel conversion.
Other toys ~J.D.,Cat & GM ~ mainly earth moving
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 02-10-2012, 09:35 PM
jplinville's Avatar
Conservative
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Dayton, Ohio region
Posts: 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chas H View Post
While we do disagree on much, I can agree you are not an expert.
I did not read anything in the linked article about geothermal inducing hydrocarbons into the water supply.
The gist of the article was geothermal drilling causing earthquakes.
Fracking has been cited as a reson for earthquakes and the contamination of ground water supplies. I did not read of a connection between the two operations in the linked article.
Right off with an insult...how typical of you.

You didn't see the connection to earthquakes, really? Did you even read the article?

As for pollution from hydrocarbons, I know that larger Enhanced Geothermal plants contain systems to control the hydrocarbon release, but couldn't an earthquake from the fracking, which is done in this, cause possible issues for the plant's systems and release toxins?

I'm actually trying to understand the complete difference between this and fracking for natural gas.
__________________
1987 560SL
85,000 miles




Meet on the level, leave on the square. Great words to live by

Were we directed from Washington when to sow and when to reap, we should soon want bread. - Thomas Jefferson: Autobiography, 1821.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 02-10-2012, 09:38 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: beautiful Bucks Co, PA
Posts: 961
Quote:
Originally Posted by jplinville View Post
Right off with an insult...how typical of you.

You didn't see the connection to earthquakes, really? Did you even read the article?

As for pollution from hydrocarbons, I know that larger Enhanced Geothermal plants contain systems to control the hydrocarbon release, but couldn't an earthquake from the fracking, which is done in this, cause possible issues for the plant's systems and release toxins?

I'm actually trying to understand the complete difference between this and fracking for natural gas.
Please go back and re- read my post. Are you still on those meds from the other night?
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 02-10-2012, 09:40 PM
jplinville's Avatar
Conservative
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Dayton, Ohio region
Posts: 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by layback40 View Post
I have always believed that earth quakes are caused by the movement of techtonic plates in the earth's crust.
If there was a very minor tremor as things settled after fracking, you could probably make a connection. A proper quake is unlikely.
I've read articles that claim that localized earthquakes were caused during the fracking process of Enhanced Geothermal, and that when it was halted, the quaking stopped as well.

I don't know...I'm still reading on the subject. I was hoping someone could add a few more links for me to read.
__________________
1987 560SL
85,000 miles




Meet on the level, leave on the square. Great words to live by

Were we directed from Washington when to sow and when to reap, we should soon want bread. - Thomas Jefferson: Autobiography, 1821.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 02-10-2012, 09:42 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,361
earthquakes are bush's fault
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 02-10-2012, 09:45 PM
The Clk Man's Avatar
Saved By Grace
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Heaven Bound
Posts: 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by catmandoo62 View Post
earthquakes are bush's fault
You've got that right.....
__________________
For the Saved, this world is the worst it will ever get.
For the unSaved, this world is the best it will ever get.

Clk's Ebay Stuff BUY SOMETHING NOW!!!
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 02-10-2012, 09:53 PM
Graplr's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
Posts: 1,650
Quote:
Originally Posted by buffa98 View Post
A neighbor has a geo thermal. I went over when they were installing it and here what I can say. The GT system is a closed loop system. He has 2 375 ft deep loops for heating and cooling. All the glycol is the tube either heats or cools the house via a heat exchanger/air handler.

Fracing if I understand the process uses High pressure to "FRACTURE" the shale to release the gas.
The geothermal system you are talking about is different than the one referenced in this article. Home systems are indeed a closed loop. It is very similar to the refrigeration cycle on one's refrigerator or the A/C system in your car. It compresses a coolant and the resulting gas/liquid change causes heat at one end (condenser) and cooling at the other (evaporator). So one in a home can be run in the summer, by using the earth as the condenser taking the heat out of the home and then running backwards in the winter for heat compressing the coolant coming out of the Earth for heat.

The one in the article drills deeper into the Earth at locations of tectonic activity or other "hot spots" (think Iceland) to gather the Earth's heat (through magma) and turn it into electricity (usually, sometimes for heat itself). Thus the drilling is a bit different (larger scale than your neighbor's home) and since it is in a tectonically active area (usually) to begin with it probably wouldn't be too hard to link a connection to some Earthquake. activity.
__________________
2009 ML320 Bluetec
1985 300CD
1981 300TD


Past Mercedes
1979 300TD
1982 300TD
2000 E320 4Matic Wagon
1998 E430
1984 300SD
1980 300SD
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 02-10-2012, 09:54 PM
jplinville's Avatar
Conservative
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Dayton, Ohio region
Posts: 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chas H View Post
Please go back and re- read my post. Are you still on those meds from the other night?

Forgive my confusion on your answer, but there's no need to be an a$$ about this...

I'm tired and the two seem very similar to me.

Ground water contamination seems to come from the ponds of used fracking fluids, from what I've read so far, as well as seeping hydrocarbons, as per some studies I've looked at.

I'm asking because at the recent borough council meeting, one of the local factories is proposing a study for enhanced geothermal drilling. We already have natural gas fracking going on to the north east of us, which is a highly debated topic...yet this didn't receive much debate.

I doubt it will happen, as I live in coal mining country, but they think they may be able to get to a safe depth, and still pull heat from the ground.

Enhanced geothermal and geothermal are new to me...
__________________
1987 560SL
85,000 miles




Meet on the level, leave on the square. Great words to live by

Were we directed from Washington when to sow and when to reap, we should soon want bread. - Thomas Jefferson: Autobiography, 1821.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 02-10-2012, 10:52 PM
compress ignite's Avatar
Drone aspiring to Serfdom
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: 32(degrees) North by 81(degrees) West
Posts: 5,554
Advanced Carbon Based Life Forms

Such as You and Me.

"Like","Desire","NEED": CLEAN, CLEAR DRINKING (Potable) WATER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The Common Sense objection to "Fracking" is the "Roustabout" types that
use it ,USE SUCH TOXIC FLUIDS THAT IT POISONS THE DRINKING WATER!!!
[F**k the (Alleged) Earth Quakes,That's a "Red Herring"]
If I'm poisoned by the drinking water, who cares if the china breaks in 7.0 ???

The Oil and Gas companies that use this practice are spending MILLIONS in Public Advertising
(Spelled "Concealment")
So that they may use the process to SELL OUR NATURAL GAS ....
(WAIT FOR IT)...
OVERSEAS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Geothermal heating/cooling is completely different.
__________________
'84 300SD sold
124.128
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 02-10-2012, 11:28 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: beautiful Bucks Co, PA
Posts: 961
Quote:
Originally Posted by jplinville View Post
Forgive my confusion on your answer, but there's no need to be an a$$ about this...

I'm tired and the two seem very similar to me.

Ground water contamination seems to come from the ponds of used fracking fluids, from what I've read so far, as well as seeping hydrocarbons, as per some studies I've looked at.

I'm asking because at the recent borough council meeting, one of the local factories is proposing a study for enhanced geothermal drilling. We already have natural gas fracking going on to the north east of us, which is a highly debated topic...yet this didn't receive much debate.

I doubt it will happen, as I live in coal mining country, but they think they may be able to get to a safe depth, and still pull heat from the ground.

Enhanced geothermal and geothermal are new to me...
Again I must agree you are one confused dude.
You should seriously consider taking a break from posting to the forum untill you are done with your current meds.

Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:16 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2026, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2024 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page