Chevy Volt - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

t walgamuth · #1 02-26-2012, 11:07 PM

A friend sent me one of those right wing attack emails regarding the Chevy volt saying how it was such a big rip off etc. So I googled and tried to figure out the "truth" about its operating costs.

I found hard information a bit difficult to come by. Taking information from a Car and Driver road test I belive the following is fairly close to reality:

1. The range on battery only is from 25 to 60 miles. The cost to charge overnight on average is $1.60. Here I believe it would be closer to $1 using our rates. So if you happen to drive around town only a lot and figure average range on electric only of 25 miles that yeilds a cost per mile of $.06/ mile. Fuel only.

2. The steady state mpg highway using gasoline only they found to be about 35 mpg. Using a cost of 3.65/ gal this yields a cost of about .11/ mile fuel only.

3. Cost to purchase is listed at about $40,000 suggested list with a rebate of $7500 from the government. The net then to a consumer is 32,500. I saw a cost to the average taxpayer for this rebate of $.01. I imagine the list price will go down eventually as they sell more of them and the rebate expires. I have no idea what the actual negotiated cost people can get with them.

3. Special hardware is $0 because you can plug into an ordinary three prong outlet. If you want to use 220 and don't have a plug that might cost extra. Supposedly charging with 220 is a little more effecient but not significantly so.

The following is my thoughts based on information gleaned here and there:

Average operating costs:

For my self, I probably drive a lot more on the highway than most people. I suspect between all my vehicles, mb diesels, dodge diesel and Miata I probably drive on average 30,000 miles. I estimate that 20,000 of that is highway and of the highway probably over half is in the dodge.

Chevy volt:

I believe an average of 15,000 miles a year is considered average. Lets say it is half highway.

7500 higway at .11/ mile = $825/ year

7500 city at .06/ mile = $450

83 mercedes:

My most fuel efficient car is my 83 300d with 307 diff and five speed overdrive, that would use:

7500 highway at 35 mpg = $4.00/35 = .11/ mile x 7500 = $825

7500 city at 22 mpg = $4/22 = .18/ mile x 7500 = $1,350

I have about $3000 or so invested in my old car. The volt would be about $32,500 so if you borrowed it all the interest at 6% over five years would be about $925/ yr. so the cost of running the volt if you put in interest is $2150.
The cost of running my old benzo for fuel only is $2,175 assuming no interest cost and no repairs.

Actually the volt does not look too bad on overall cost. I cannot imagine a more frugal sedan to compare it to than my old benzo.

Thoughts Gentlemen and Ladies?

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Brian Carlton · #2 02-27-2012, 01:09 AM

Why do you compare your old vehicle with a brand new vehicle and attempt to justify the comparison by the carrying cost of the new vehicle?

This comparison always will favor the old vehicle.

I did notice, however, that you failed to put any costs for repairs on the old vehicle, which will affect the outcome a bit. Of course, you could be like the majority on here and try to maintain the old vehicle on a shoestring with some bailing wire............. However, anyone who wants to seriously maintain an older M/B is going to spend $750 per year in parts. The comparison doesn't look so good once this is factored into the result.

Why don't you compare your vehicle to an old Jetta or Passat diesel? Your cost of ownership won't look so delightful under that comparison.

Angel · #3 02-27-2012, 01:18 AM

3) I'm not sure that charging with 220v is more efficient, but my impression is that you'll never put a good charge on the battery with a 120v outlet and less than 4 hours.
assume an electrically perfect charging setup (I'd normally assume 80% efficiency to be safe)
120v * 15A (standard outlet) = 1.8kw/hr
220v * 30A (standard dryer outlet, they come in 50A versions also) = 6.6kW/hr

Its a 16kwHr battery in a Volt (according to wikipedia...sorry) - so if you drain it - you are looking at half of a day to recharge at 120v....only a few hours if you have a dryer plug in your garage. the end of the world ? no, but if you are running errands all day and cant plug it in, you'll be using more fuel

- 35mpg sound about right - its a 1.4L 4cyl - The Fiat 500 has a 1.4l pushing a ligher/smaller car and gets in the low 40's EPA-style.

Your cost per mile makes sense, but batteries are still a variable. I'm sure the email painted them to be the end of the world at 5yrs/7yrs/10yrs whatever sounded good to the email writer, but I have not heard of anyone with a 2001 Honda Insight having a disabled car becuase their battery died too far. Hybrid cars are set up pretty well for this becuase as the battery gets old, it just loses capacity, and the engine runs more. This uses a bit more fuel but most users wont notice because their car as a 1.0L or 1.4L engine in it anyway. Good design on the manuf's part - us dumb people that just look at the display (and even then only when we have to) wont know the difference.

You can call it economical- I'd expect it to be so, but for so many reasons already beaten on this board, there is no real comparison between a W123 and a new Chevrolet sedan (crash-tests, airbags, rear-wheel drive, yours is not stock as it sits, NVH, where will each car be in 25 years, emissions, lease vs. buy....)

$32K will get you a very nice car these days and is more than 85% of my friends can afford to spend. $32k is not much of a stretch for an STI and $32kilodollars will get you any TDI you want with plenty of change for fuel/mods.

Good for Chevy for going there, we arent ready for battery-only EV's and might not ever be.

-John

E150GT · #4 02-27-2012, 01:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Carlton

Why don't you compare your vehicle to an old Jetta or Passat diesel? Your cost of ownership won't look so delightful under that comparison.

Thats for sure.

spdrun · #5 02-27-2012, 01:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angel

3) I'm not sure that charging with 220v is more efficient, but my impression is that you'll never put a good charge on the battery with a 120v outlet and less than 4 hours.
assume an electrically perfect charging setup (I'd normally assume 80% efficiency to be safe)
120v * 15A (standard outlet) = 1.8kw/hr
220v * 30A (standard dryer outlet, they come in 50A versions also) = 6.6kW/hr

Nit to pick -- the numbers you're quoting are just kW, not kW/h. If you want to put it into context for charging a battery which is rated in kW-h, I suppose you could write it as kW-h/h where the hours cancel out.

E150GT · #6 02-27-2012, 01:24 AM

Yeah how can you expect someone to pay 32k for a car that is not as functional as a regular car? I mean I can jump into either my mazda or my benz and take off to dallas without stopping for fuel. Now if I just financed a new volt for 32k for six years thats about $500 a month. Now I cant afford to have multiple vehicles. Now I cant make that trip to dallas in my volt.

spdrun · #7 02-27-2012, 01:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by E150GT

Yeah how can you expect someone to pay 32k for a car that is not as functional as a regular car? I mean I can jump into either my mazda or my benz and take off to dallas without stopping for fuel. Now if I just financed a new volt for 32k for six years thats about $500 a month. Now I cant afford to have multiple vehicles. Now I cant make that trip to dallas in my volt.

Why not? It will run on gas once the battery is depleted.

E150GT · #8 02-27-2012, 01:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spdrun

Why not? It will run on gas once the battery is depleted.

Oh I am an idiot. I was thinking it was all electric.

Pavka007 · #9 02-27-2012, 02:01 AM

If you going to compare how about new VW Jetta TDI? 2L/140BHP/6 speed manual and all this for about $24000 out of the door. Even looking at your customer price of $32500 the Jetta still give you $7500 back in your pocket. A lot of people reporting 42/44 MPG average in real life, so using your calculation this will give about $0.09 per mile (fuel only) Even on $4.00 per gallon this will cover your fuel for 75000 miles on 40MPG.
So if we assume 15000 miles per year we are talking 6 years before they break even. In 6 years the Jetta will have a better re-sale value and this is for sure.
So at this point if you want to save money motoring...I would say the Volt is not the best car.... for me anyway.
Now if they drop the price down to $20 000....this is the whole new ball game.

Skippy · #10 02-27-2012, 02:04 AM

The following video pretty well describes my feelings about hybrids:

what is a prius good for? - YouTube

Quote:

So if it's economy you're after, or you have a need in some way to save the planet, buy a Golf diesel. I promise it will be better.

t walgamuth · #11 02-27-2012, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Carlton

Why do you compare your old vehicle with a brand new vehicle and attempt to justify the comparison by the carrying cost of the new vehicle?

This comparison always will favor the old vehicle.

I did notice, however, that you failed to put any costs for repairs on the old vehicle, which will affect the outcome a bit. Of course, you could be like the majority on here and try to maintain the old vehicle on a shoestring with some bailing wire............. However, anyone who wants to seriously maintain an older M/B is going to spend $750 per year in parts. The comparison doesn't look so good once this is factored into the result.

Why don't you compare your vehicle to an old Jetta or Passat diesel? Your cost of ownership won't look so delightful under that comparison.

I did the comparison for a friend who was knocking the volt, not the other way around.

t walgamuth · #12 02-27-2012, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pavka007

If you going to compare how about new VW Jetta TDI? 2L/140BHP/6 speed manual and all this for about $24000 out of the door. Even looking at your customer price of $32500 the Jetta still give you $7500 back in your pocket. A lot of people reporting 42/44 MPG average in real life, so using your calculation this will give about $0.09 per mile (fuel only) Even on $4.00 per gallon this will cover your fuel for 75000 miles on 40MPG.
So if we assume 15000 miles per year we are talking 6 years before they break even. In 6 years the Jetta will have a better re-sale value and this is for sure.
So at this point if you want to save money motoring...I would say the Volt is not the best car.... for me anyway.
Now if they drop the price down to $20 000....this is the whole new ball game.

I would rather have a vw too but for a person who does a lot of town only short trips the volt would make sense, perhaps.

MS Fowler · #13 02-27-2012, 08:30 AM

I have some of the right wing criticism of the Volt, and it baffles me--just discussing the car, and not the bailout, etc.
Some/ many talk show hosts seem to be woefully ignorant, maybe purposefully so. They quote a range of 40-70 miles and laugh. But they ignore the fact that it has a gas engine and can run on that, or electric, or both combined.
As a concept, I think the Volt is on the money. The devil is in the details--as always.

Whether it is viable in the market place, I am not so sure.
There seems to be a possible conflict of interest with a government bailed-out car company offering taxpayer-funded rebates.

t walgamuth · #14 02-27-2012, 08:42 AM

I am not sure about the conflict of interest. How does that work?

As for the range being laughable, until my friend sent me the hate email I thought the volt was electric only too. After reading about it I was fairly impressed.

The Chevy advertisements are worthless and do not state what is provided in the car at all. They clearly think people are to ignorant to understand the concept.

strelnik · #15 02-27-2012, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pavka007

If you going to compare how about new VW Jetta TDI? 2L/140BHP/6 speed manual and all this for about $24000 out of the door. Even looking at your customer price of $32500 the Jetta still give you $7500 back in your pocket. A lot of people reporting 42/44 MPG average in real life, so using your calculation this will give about $0.09 per mile (fuel only) Even on $4.00 per gallon this will cover your fuel for 75000 miles on 40MPG.
So if we assume 15000 miles per year we are talking 6 years before they break even. In 6 years the Jetta will have a better re-sale value and this is for sure.
So at this point if you want to save money motoring...I would say the Volt is not the best car.... for me anyway.
Now if they drop the price down to $20 000....this is the whole new ball game.

BTW, how long does the battery last and what is the cost of replacement? I'm asking because I don't know.

If you had to run entirely on the gas engine, could you? Is the acceleration ok for longer-distance freeway driving?