It IS, for people who use the law the way it was intended.

Obviously, not everyone does that.

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Strelnik
Invest in America: Buy a Congressman!

1950 170SD
1951 Citroen 11BN
1953 Citroen 11BNF limo
1953 220a project
1959 180D
1960 190D
1960 Borgward Isabella TS 2dr
1983 240D daily driver
1983 380SL
1990 350SDL daily driver alt
3 x Citroen DS21M, down from 5
3 x Citroen 2CV, down from 6

Franklin said " Two may keep a secret, if one of them is dead."

Stalin said, " Two may keep a secret, if both of them are dead."

Friends of mine in the police business have said that many times, people who have committed the perfect crime were prosecuted years later when they bragged about it to someone else.
There's no statute of limitation on murder.

__________________
Strelnik
Invest in America: Buy a Congressman!

1950 170SD
1951 Citroen 11BN
1953 Citroen 11BNF limo
1953 220a project
1959 180D
1960 190D
1960 Borgward Isabella TS 2dr
1983 240D daily driver
1983 380SL
1990 350SDL daily driver alt
3 x Citroen DS21M, down from 5
3 x Citroen 2CV, down from 6

My D-i-L's dad is a public defender out west. One year he was here and over cigars on the back porch, I asked: "just how in the hell do you defend someone that you know is guilty?"

His answer was, "Sure, some are guilty but are they guilty of what they are being charged with??"

Lawyer rule #1: Obfuscate clearly.

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Never a dull moment at Berry Hill Farm.

I don't understand his comment or your description of it.

I would expect a public defender to answer your question by saying that the criminal defense attorney defends the Bill of Rights and the presumption of innocence. Even if the defendant is guilty as charged, the criminal defense attorney owes no apology if his or her work prevents the state from proving its case. I'm sure we can concoct fact patterns in which such a result is utterly intolerable, but that is the nature of our imperfect system.

As for your characterization of what he said, it seems that you have it backwards. Under his concept of the defense attorney's role, the state is the one doing the obfuscation and the defense attorney is the one fighting that obfuscation.

EDIT: Is that what you meant by "obfuscate clearly"? I do agree that obfuscation is a tool used by defense attorneys, in both civil and criminal cases. I do not mean that in a disparaging way. That is just how it works when the law places the burden of proof on one party. The other party often wants to obfuscate.

^^^ "Obfuscate clearly" is a term of joking art in the legal profession. There is no inherent meaning in it, it's just a rib.

Indeed, you have to take that conversation in context. It's not two strangers in a bar, or even casual acquaintances, it's relatives joshing about various things. It doesn't seem like the DIL's dad didn't think this was a serious question and thus tossed out a flip comment.

I did virtually no criminal work when I practiced, but had enough friends that did. Even to them I was a bit of an outsider, but every one of them took their work seriously, believing that every person charged with a crime is deserving of a defense that seeks to ensure, at a minimum, that "the people" have jumped through all of the hoops, dotted all of the "i"s and crossed all of the "t"s -- while also trying to prevent an "easy" defendant from simply being railroaded through the system.

My guess is that in a serious conversation with the DIL's dad, you'd get much the same sandwich as my friends served, but it's all finger foods and desserts when you're relaxed with friends.

Why, are they going to put a mirror in his prison cell?

What do you call 20,000 Lawyers at the bottom of the sea?

A good start.

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Currently Benzless
Formerly: 300TD, S600, E55, 560SEL

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-Native American elder

Your just jealous that you didn't post it first.

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For the Saved, this world is the worst it will ever get.
For the unSaved, this world is the best it will ever get.

Clk's Ebay Stuff BUY SOMETHING NOW!!!

Quicker answer: Too many ....inept.


"Oh, I forgot. You were sick the day they taught law at law school."

Best use of that line was in "Get Over It" on the Hell Freezes Over CD.

Noooo, the "real killer" is still out playing golf.

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1980 300TD-China Blue/Blue MBTex-2nd Owner, 107K (Alt Blau) OBK #15
'06 Chevy Tahoe Z71 (for the wife & 4 kids, current mule) '03 Honda Odyssey (son #1's ride, reluctantly) '99 GMC Suburban (255K+ miles, semi-retired mule) 21' SeaRay Seville (summer escape pod)

ive got a couple lawyers in my family, and they always say, people always hate lawyers when they are guilty of not getting a lawyer in the first place, and now have to deal with them after digging a hole for themselves.

Based on that, Ive gone out of my way to find a good lawyer to write any and all contracts, agreements, ect that I need with good results.

I pay a little more money up front, but it sure makes a difference having an actual air tight legal document vs an agreement written on a cocktail napkin full of loopholes, and arguable later.

The one time I did that, it cost me way way more money later to extricate myself from signing something stupid and not completely legal written by a dude downloading stuff off the internet. Sounded good to both of us, but neither of us were lawyers, so it turned out the document was illegal in about 5 different ways when the relationship went sour. Illegal, but not completely unbinding, so of course it ended up in court. Won't make that mistake again.

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Perhaps so but I'd call 20000 mindfawks at the bottom of the sea pollution.

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01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

I think it is more a fact that they hate that the lawyer is able to exploit the loopholes to do something the client wants. Of course, when they themselves do use loopholes, why, it is only natural and smart of them. Kudos for their ingenuity. When the lawyer does it, he is scum.

The way I see it, when the lawyer exploits the loopholes, it is because you, citizen Joe has put it there. I could be wrong but from what I see, say the lawyer goes to sue an entity for something Citizen Joe considers silly. He uses past awards as a gauge of what he can get. Say 30%. 30% of NOTHING is still NOTHING. If he takes a case, it is because he thinks he can get money out of it. How? Based on past precedence. Say he gets $50000 from some legal action, it is because he has seen past silly actions like this get $100000. So now he goes to the entity and says "Well, past actions get $100000. Lets save us all some time and settle for $50000. Lets ask ourselves how the past precedence gets there if it wasn't for Citizen Joe who makes up the jury.

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01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow