Listened to Scalia today. - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

kerry · #1 03-03-2012, 05:56 PM

Spent the afternoon listening to Antonin Scalia. He was in town speaking to a 'Building Your Catholic Faith' conference. Given the current political situation with Santorum's orthodox Catholicism heating things up, I thought it would be interesting to hear a Catholic Supreme Court Justic speak about his religious views. There have only been 12 Catholic Supreme Courts Justices in the history of ...the US and 6 of those are current members of the Court. The gist of his message was that sophisticated culture has never had much tolerance for Christianity because of it's reliance on miracles. Keep the faith anyway. I'm pretty sure he keeps the faith since he has 9 kids.
Had to gate crash. Tried to buy tickets earlier this week. But they were only willing to sell tickets to the whole conference. Told me to try today to see if they might sell us a ticket at the door. When we got there we were told it was sold out. So, we just followed the crowds to the room and sat down. We thought we might get thrown out but survived undetected.

MS Fowler · #2 03-03-2012, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerry

Spent the afternoon listening to Antonin Scalia. He was in town speaking to a 'Building Your Catholic Faith' conference. Given the current political situation with Santorum's orthodox Catholicism heating things up, I thought it would be interesting to hear a Catholic Supreme Court Justic speak about his religious views. There have only been 12 Catholic Supreme Courts Justices in the history of ...the US and 6 of those are current members of the Court. The gist of his message was that sophisticated culture has never had much tolerance for Christianity because of it's reliance on miracles. Keep the faith anyway. I'm pretty sure he keeps the faith since he has 9 kids.
Had to gate crash. Tried to buy tickets earlier this week. But they were only willing to sell tickets to the whole conference. Told me to try today to see if they might sell us a ticket at the door. When we got there we were told it was sold out. So, we just followed the crowds to the room and sat down. We thought we might get thrown out but survived undetected.

And.......
What did he say, and what did you think about what he said?

kerry · #3 03-03-2012, 08:15 PM

"The gist of his message was that sophisticated culture has never had much tolerance for Christianity because of it's reliance on miracles. Keep the faith anyway"

He used a lot of examples to illustrate his point including St. Paul's failure in Athens and Jefferson's edited Bible. Since Christianity requires belief in Jesus' resurrection and other miracles, including current ones--he referenced a statue in a church in DC oozing water-- Christianity will always be rejected by the intellectual classes. He's a good speaker, clear arguments, good sources, effective delivery. I think he's right. If a person is not wowed by miracles, traditional Christianity isn't going to be for them. Maybe that's the clearest dividing line between the religious and the secular. He did make reference to the fact that he wasn't throwing out reason and that the First Cause argument for god was as good as the big bang.

He said nothing about his judicial philosophy. I wish he had. How does his commitment to this non-rational religion function in regards to the law in a secular democracy. I suspect he has interesting answers but he wasn't talking.

Talk wasn't recorded at his request.

Jim B. · #4 03-04-2012, 01:00 AM

Do you consider it a miracle that you successfully crashed the party and did not get caught?

MS Fowler · #5 03-04-2012, 07:24 AM

I would take issue with the Justice that Christianity requires a belief in current miracles, as that is probably more of a catholic thing, rather than something for all Christians.

Belief in the resurrection of Christ is required, though.

kerry · #6 03-04-2012, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MS Fowler

I would take issue with the Justice that Christianity requires a belief in current miracles, as that is probably more of a catholic thing, rather than something for all Christians.

Belief in the resurrection of Christ is required, though.

I'd say Catholic and a huge portion of evangelicals. All Pentecostals believe in miracles. There are many in the US at this moment who think God sprinkles them with gold dust at religious services--seriously. Look on YouTube and you can see videos of God's largess falling upon the believers.

kerry · #7 03-04-2012, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim B.

Do you consider it a miracle that you successfully crashed the party and did not get caught?

I almost dropped to my knees and made confession right there

We actually didn't think we had a prayer of getting in. We assumed there'd be security and some means of checking registration since it was a Supreme Court Justice. No evidence of any security at all. No Secret Service standing around, no metal detectors, nobody at the doors.

kerry · #8 03-04-2012, 09:17 AM

Justice Scalia tells Catholics to brave the scorn of worldly people - The Denver Post

davidmash · #9 03-04-2012, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MS Fowler

I would take issue with the Justice that Christianity requires a belief in current miracles, as that is probably more of a catholic thing, rather than something for all Christians.

Belief in the resurrection of Christ is required, though.

Whether a person believes in one miracle or multiples I think is splitting hairs. I guess it also depends on how one defines a miracle as well. An omniscient being talking to man in what ever form and giving guidance seems like a miracle to me as well.

kerry · #10 03-04-2012, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidmash

Whether a person believes in one miracle or multiples I think is splitting hairs. .

I agree. But seeing a 'miracle' in person versus believing a story about one second, third, or a millionth hand is a different issue since the later requires accepting the judgment of someone about whom you know little or nothing. This is relevant, particularly in Catholicism, because 'belief' in that religion is substantially constituted by accepting the authority of the Church.

kerry · #11 03-04-2012, 10:13 AM

One notable sociological fact about the audience is that the majority were female. Maybe 65%?

junqueyardjim · #12 03-05-2012, 07:47 PM

I am an Evangelical and I see miracles every day. A seed that sprouts, the birth of kittens, an egg that hatches and a human baby that begins to walk and talk and a sun that rises and sets each day at the appointed time. And thousands more, all miracles. Even our vision is a great created miracle. I know, I know, you guys will say that it is just tired old Mother Nature doing her regular grind, day in and day out. That is only because you all, with your great learning and wisdom, have crowded the Creator Redeemer Lord out of your life as much as possible. And yet it remains in you like a sticking pricking thorn and you keep scratching away at it - it never leaves you alone.

PaulC · #13 03-05-2012, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by junqueyardjim

I am an Evangelical and I see miracles every day. A seed that sprouts, the birth of kittens, an egg that hatches and a human baby that begins to walk and talk and a sun that rises and sets each day at the appointed time. And thousands more, all miracles. Even our vision is a great created miracle. I know, I know, you guys will say that it is just tired old Mother Nature doing her regular grind, day in and day out. That is only because you all, with your great learning and wisdom, have crowded the Creator Redeemer Lord out of your life as much as possible. And yet it remains in you like a sticking pricking thorn and you keep scratching away at it - it never leaves you alone.

Sooo...the Lord is like an internet forum troll?

MTI · #14 03-05-2012, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by junqueyardjim

I am an Evangelical and I see miracles every day. A seed that sprouts, the birth of kittens, an egg that hatches and a human baby that begins to walk and talk and a sun that rises and sets each day at the appointed time.

Poetic yes, but miraculous, no. If all things are miracles, then there are no miracles. Just as a point in every direction is no point at all. Your prose is human romaticism, which you undoubtably will give credit to miracle.

However, you do make a fine case for the believers of Gaia, Mother Nature, the Great Spirit.

kerry · #15 03-05-2012, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by junqueyardjim

I am an Evangelical and I see miracles every day. A seed that sprouts, the birth of kittens, an egg that hatches and a human baby that begins to walk and talk and a sun that rises and sets each day at the appointed time. And thousands more, all miracles. Even our vision is a great created miracle. I know, I know, you guys will say that it is just tired old Mother Nature doing her regular grind, day in and day out. That is only because you all, with your great learning and wisdom, have crowded the Creator Redeemer Lord out of your life as much as possible. And yet it remains in you like a sticking pricking thorn and you keep scratching away at it - it never leaves you alone.

Those weren't the miracle he was talking about. He was talking about water into wine, rocks giving forth water and raising from the dead kind of miracles.