Another one bites the dust... - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

aklim · #16 04-03-2012, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spdrun

Nah, utilizing a source of essentially free energy is much better than raping the environment, or paying for energy in American and foreign blood. That's just good sense. Prices will come down as economies of scale develop. However, governemt nurturing may help these economies of scale develop faster!!

Your point? Everyone says the same thing about their own pet project. When they wanted to cut military bases, same thing. Other bases are a waste of money. This one kills a vibrant economy, community, etc, etc. That is why we don't get anywhere. You want others to cut their pet projects while yours is the "sacred cow" that cannot be cut. Guess what, those that feel the same way about their pet project also say the exact same thing.

What you have just said is exactly what I hear the others say. "Cut the pork. Mine isn't but the others are. Mine is good for the reasons of yada, yada, yada but the others are wasting money.". There will always be a reason to support this over that. Fairest way is to stay out of trying to encourage growth in this way or the other. Oil companies also need the subsidy because it does some good as does your pet project. Why should yours trump their "sacred cow"?

spdrun · #17 04-03-2012, 01:56 PM

Big difference between killing people/raping Gaia and taking advantage of a free and clean source of energy. If you don't get that some technologies ARE in fact better than others, you're stupider than I imagined and/or a troll.

hill · #18 04-03-2012, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

I think the more relevant question is this. Besides going bankrupt were there any signs of problems like with Solyndra? If so, somebody/somebodys' scalp should be hanging out on the wall. If not, perhaps it should be another reminder of why govt should NOT be trying to make winners and losers when they cannot even do their own jobs.

China flooded the market with subsidized solar to crush the competition. Might be a little better after the tariffs kick in.

US to impose tariff on Chinese solar panels in victory for domestic makers | Environment | guardian.co.uk

aklim · #19 04-03-2012, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spdrun

Big difference between killing people/raping Gaia and taking advantage of a free and clean source of energy.

If you don't get that some technologies ARE in fact better than others,

you're stupider than I imagined and/or a troll.

I'm not concerned with the results. I am concerned about the PRINCIPLE and the slippery slope it puts us on. What if it isn't about that one case and a less "evil" issue?

So what you are saying is that the govt should keep their hands off unless it is a good project. Fair enough. Everyone with a pet project will tell you that their item will produce more good than harm. If one project was to be kept, they too would tell you that it should be their project, much like you. So what is the PRINCIPLE behind it then? As long as it supports a good technology? How to decide on this "good"? Most of these "sacred cows" have a good side. Like you, the champions of that project, whatever it is, will tell us that their project benefits mankind, yada, yada, yada. Now what? Your guiding principle seems to be "support a good technology". Who decides on "good"? More important, how has this committee been doing on decision making in recent history?

Fortunately for me, unless you are writing my paycheck or speaking into my microphone, I'm not worried about what you think of me.

aklim · #20 04-03-2012, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hill

China flooded the market with subsidized solar to crush the competition. Might be a little better after the tariffs kick in.

US to impose tariff on Chinese solar panels in victory for domestic makers | Environment | guardian.co.uk

Here is an excerpt of the article that might show a problem

Quote:

But Tuesday's move did not suggest the Obama administration is willing to risk a trade war with China in support of struggling solar panel manufacturers.

Will they go all the way or just a little to please the population?

TwitchKitty · #21 04-03-2012, 09:28 PM

Anything that gets publicity and attention will be used to scam people. Been that way. Read about the "gold rush".

Anybody remember Enron?

The Clk Man · #22 04-03-2012, 09:40 PM

And another cat bites the dust........ ?

retmil46 · #23 04-04-2012, 03:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spdrun

Big difference between killing people/raping Gaia and taking advantage of a free and clean source of energy. If you don't get that some technologies ARE in fact better than others, you're stupider than I imagined and/or a troll.

As the saying goes, takes one to know one.

hill · #24 04-04-2012, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

Here is an excerpt of the article that might show a problem

Will they go all the way or just a little to please the population?

I wi$h I knew.

panZZer · #25 04-04-2012, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jplinville

Electric Utility Week: "Solar Trust Changes Technology For California Project, Walks Away From $2.1B Loan Guarantee." From an August 29, 2011, article in Electric Utility Week:

My question...if the above is accurate, does it really do anything to help anyone in DC on a political level? NO.

My point...No matter the outcome, if a company fails after the current administration touches it or uses it for political power and play, then falters after merely being offered a loan from the government, it's still a stain on the administration.

Im not buying You being concerned about anyone in DC's political situation--especially progressives.

Regressives perhaps.

aklim · #26 04-04-2012, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hill

I wi$h I knew.

I doubt that we will have the stones for it.

Yak · #27 04-04-2012, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jplinville

This time the loss is greater than Solyndra's...

Solar company bankrupt despite 'win-win' DOE loan | Campaign 2012 | Washington Examiner

Wait...is this an example of the "so called" media bias? Oh, it's editorial commentary, not news. And it was updated from the original excerpt. See the footnote at the bottom that amends the "unclear" part. I bolded it, since the author didn't.

Quote:

Solar Trust for America received a conditional commitment for $2.1 billion in loan guaranteedfrom the Department of Energy -- "the largest amount ever offered to a solar project," according to Energy Secretary Steven Chu -- for a project near Blythe, Calif., but declared bankruptcy within a year. The company did not receive any taxpayer funds.

Correction: This piece has been updated to reflect the nature of DOE support for the company. An earlier version expressed uncertainty as to whether Solar Trust for America had received taxpayer funding prior to bankruptcy.

This is a chain reaction bankruptcy, since the parent company, Solar Millenium AG from Germany, filed in December.

However, regarding the specific project with the offered-then-declined-guarantee:

Quote:

As it was going under, STA sought to salvage the value of its advanced development projects through a variety of schemes.
One of these has yielded a glimmer of hope: NextEra Energy Resources, the largest renewable energy owner in the US, committed to providing STA in bankruptcy a secured credit facility "and has expressed an interest in serving as a stalking horse purchaser" -- a market tester, essentially -- for one or more of STA's projects, Kleinschmidt says in the filing. The financing includes up to $3.9m in term loans, at LIBOR plus 8%, and a $18.4m letter of credit.
STA needs the permission of Judge Kevin Gross to do the deal, which would make the new NextEra debt senior to that of STA's other creditors.
If it goes through, NextEra could find itself in pole position to scoop up some very large solar projects.
STA and its subsidiaries successfully permitted 2GW of solar thermal projects in California and Nevada that were to use parabolic dish concentrator technology. One of these, Blythe, in Riverside County, California, was to be the largest in the world at 1GW.
The ground-breaking ceremony last summer was attended by Secretary of the Interior Ken Salazar and California Governor Jerry Brown, who joined company executives in turning the dusty soil with gold-spaded shovels, only to see it blow away in that day's strong, hot wind.
The company subsequently announced plans to switch from concentrating solar power to PV, ditching a $2.1bn Department of Energy loan guarantee in the process. It had earlier formed a partnership with solarhybrid to develop US PV projects; later the plan emerged for SMAG to sell its interest in STA to solarhybrid.
STA also secured 1.5GW of much-sough-after grid connections in the Mojave Desert, where renewable energy developers routinely decry the lack of transmission access.
The Blyth large generator interconnection agreement (LGIA), Kleinschmidt says, is "particularly valuable" because utility Southern California Edison "is financing the over $200m of network upgrades ascribed to the Blythe Project... This is a unique competitive advantage for the Blythe Project over competing solar projects that must bear the costs of network upgrades." STA's 500MW Palen Project is similarly situated.
However, millions of dollars of security deposits are due in early April. If the LGIA is lost, "the Blythe Project ... would be rendered near, if not completely, valueless".

Bankrupt Solar Trust of America seeks help from NextEra - Solar - Renewable energy news - Recharge - wind, solar, biomass, wave/tidal/hydro and geothermal

So maybe someone will come up with a few million to pay the deposits and score some ROI. Where's SRJ and Berkshire-Hathaway when you need them? Still smarting over their losses in the natural gas-powered TXU electric market, I guess.

Quote:

“However things turn out, I totally miscalculated the gain/loss probabilities when I purchased the bonds, Buffett wrote. “In tennis parlance, this was a major unforced error by your chairman.” “That was a mistake — a big mistake,” Buffett said in the letter

Buffett warns holdings in TXU parent could become worthless | Loren Steffy | a Chron.com blog

Observation for Washington DC: the energy market is a fickle beast.

chilcutt · #28 04-05-2012, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spdrun

Fine, then let's pull out of the Middle East tomorrow and throw Saudi and Israel under a big 'ol Persian freight train. I'd consider subsidizing solar to fall under the general welfare clause of the Constitution. Far better than death abroad and/or vomiting CO2 into the atmosphere.

Best post in this thread

Pooka · #29 04-05-2012, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mgburg

What WOULD be interesting is following the CAMPAIGN DONATIONS to each and everyone political in this deal (and their associates, whether they be consultants, advisors, prime-lenders, etc...).

Then we'll see how far the real stench has permeated the fabric of plausible deniability...

Rep. Issa was doing with with Solyndra until it became clear that a lot of Bush people were involved in approving and pushing the deal. And then he just dropped it.

I thought he was going to get to the bottom if it and let the chips fall where they may?