why are there no small pickups left in US market new?
 

My GF is getting tired of her old benz and was interested in maybe grabbing a small pickup instead, so she could carry stuff in an external bed, and also have 4wd.

We were doing some research, and I was completely surprised to find that there won't be any smaller pickups available new anymore in the US. The Ranger was the smallest of the bunch, and its been discontinued this year.

Other pickups like the Colorado, the Frontier, and the Tacoma, are WAY larger than their original models, full pickup size for the Frontier IMO. I used to own a nissan HB, and I could basically park that thing in the bed of a frontier.

Those are all too big for her needs, so if she wants a small maneuverable pickup she has to go used without a factory warranty.

It seems from what I was reading that no one is offering things like the S-10, or Ranger, or HB, or just the toyota truck anymore in the US. They are all way larger and way less utilitarian. My friends frontier is less maneuverable than my 89 dodge D-100 that I used to own a few years ago, but with a way smaller bed.

Because Americans are getting "wider" and have a hell of an inferiority complex to boot. It's not about the utility, it's about sitting above all of the peons in their sedans. In fact, high pickups decrease utility since you have to lift items higher.

There's one low "pickup" available still. Take an MB Sprinter Cab Chassis, bolt on a pickup or stake bed.

Declining demand when everyone was looking for larger everything killed them off :/ fwiw ranger is a decent truck if you can get used to the lower doors in there... I've had mine a month and still struggle with that

lower doors?

The reason is simple for this
 

Merkins like things to be BIG.

Big houses, big meals, big boats, big tits, big cars, big televisions, big dogs, big planes, big swimming pools, everything BIG.


THE OTHER REASON:

The Japanese have a LOCK on the small pickup market worldwide.



http://i353.photobucket.com/albums/r...ta_taliban.jpg

Im talking more about small vs big vs high and low. an MB sprinter cab and chassis is still a large pickup with a stake bed. You can do the same thing with econoline or savanna cab and chassis vans as well.

Those are all still full size van variants.

A crossover 4WD still has the same ability to haul stuff when the seats are folded, still has 4WD and not too high to be unsafe.

Or get the best-condition used small pickup available and keep it.

Which leads to another peeve of mine. Why so many "crossdressers" and not so many wagons in the American market? Seriously, Americans have issues with driving vehicles that make them look less than tough. Must be over-compensating...

Rangers are amazing. I did terrible, terrible things to my '93 2wd and it kept taking the beating (until I threw the serpentine on the highway and cooked the headgaskets-my fault)


Pick up a used Ranger-I got my '98 for ~$2k, threw $1k at ball joints, brakes, batt/alt, and fluid changes. Nothing else.

Most crossovers are tall wagons. I've never looked at crossover vehicles as being tough.

Is the Colorado really that much bigger than an S-10? I had an S-10 Blazer (P.O.S.) and, against my better judgement at the time, bought a couple Colorado's for two of my sales reps. The interior width, including space between the seats, seems about the same. They are noticeably smaller than the Nissan Frontier and the Dodge Dakota.

They've held up surprisingly well. Both extended cabs, both 3.7L I5, one is 4x4. The 2WD averages about 22mpg, the 4X4 has been a tick over 19 (both do a lot of highway driving, average 500 lbs. of payload). The one real downside is the bed is only 5.1' (although it does keep the overall length down for maneuverability). It's too bad they didn't offer a 6-6.5' one.

The early reviews weren't overwhelming, but my experience with them has been positive. My customer service rep. has a 4x4 extended cab one she also uses as a farm truck that has also served her well.

They're only slightly bigger, at least the standard cab standard bed ones. We had them for delivery vehicles back when I worked at the parts store, so I was able to see and drive them back to back (side to side? Whatever) they'd kick the s10s in a race too :D

I say it's lower... I'm a bit taller then the truck and have managed to smash the top of my head a few times.... Lost more blood through my scalp because of it this year then the last 2 years combined

If I wanted to drive a tall vehicle, I'd apply for a job at f**king UPS. They appeal to the scared little bints who "neeeeed an SUV because it's saaaaafer if they get raaaaan off the road by a big truuuuck." (while flapping their yap into a cell phone).

No More Compact Trucks… For US | Eric Peters Autos

"CAFE is about fleet averages, which are measured based on annual production totals. So, the more of a given vehicle that gets less-than-par MPGs (35.5 MPGs by 2016) the lower a car company’s overall fleet average CAFE score. By getting rid of the Ranger, Ford will produce fewer trucks overall that don’t make the CAFE cut, which will help float the final number.

Ford is not going to drop the F-truck, a best-seller. But the merely ok-selling Ranger is expendable."

I'm surprised that a small 4-cyl diesel pickup couldn't get upwards of 30 mpg, frankly. As far as CAFE, another retarded idea foisted on us by the cretins in Washington. Instead of just taxing fuel more and letting the market decide how exactly to use less of it.

Problem with CAFE is that it tends to distort the market in ways that end up being less efficient.

I'm sure a diesel pickup about the size of a '78 Ford Courier would break 30 mpg. The EPA wouldn't like it and the OEM's don't think it would sell enough units to be worth the trouble to get it legally sold over here.

Why would the EPA not like it? Quite a few diesels have been recently approved for US sale. The problem is the average idiot American consumer, who thinks that bigger is better. Plus, bigger IS better since what, over 50% of the population is obese. Oink-oink-snuffle-WHEEEEEE-WHEEEEEE! Gotta have those wiiiiide bucket seats. Not to mention a loooong cab, to be kind to fat-worn old knees.

What really killed the small trucks like the Ranger is the price. There is a preconceive notion that the small truck should be really cheap. But the facts are they are priced similar to a full sized pickup. Why buy a Ranger, when for a small amount more you can have a F150 that is bigger and more comfortable.



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I believe the straight 5 is 220-sumptin' HP. It moves that 2WD one along quite nicely! :D It does sound a bit different.

Why buy an Acura when a Suburban would do just fine? You're paying for engineering, not paying by the pound -- it's not a frickin' sausage. Though I'd rock the whip below, no matter what the MPG:

Your correct. But the majority of folks will look at that they are buying by the pound.


Look at the 2012 Ranger (the "world" model we can't get here that includes diesel options ), it is 90 percent of the size of a F150 because people literally want more for the same price.



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The diesel emission standards in the U.S. are out of whack and drive the cost of diesel vehicles up way higher than they should be. This isn't as big of an issue on a $50,000 E-Class, but if you're trying to get a small pickup out the door for under twenty grand, it becomes a huge problem.

Isn't the Golf TDI just north of $20k?

They start at 25...the TDIs are commanding a premium

I'd look for a late 90's Nissan or Toyota.

Isuzu sold a turbo diesel 4 cyl truck in the US at one time which was a good little truck. Needless to say they are hard to find in good shape nowadays. In addition, they seem to bring a premium on the used car market if they are not rusted out.

I would have to agree with Skippy and spdrun. A small PU should be able to easily crack 30 MPG- my 7300# Dodge can do 24, so 30 should not be out of reach. Years ago, a friend of mine had two Mitsubishi TD PU's, and the 2WD could break 40 on the highway. The problem with the emissions is the Punishment Agency's requirement of keeping the NOX standards so low. They insist on a 99% clean engine where a 95% clean engine would be cheaper and more economical, and the environment wouldn't know the difference.

I think a small, $25-30K diesel PU that could get a real 30-35 MPG and offer decent performance (150-200HP) would be a runaway seller, and it wouldn't steal business from the full-sized segment. They're common in most of the rest of the civilized world.

They're pretty common in the parts of the uncivilized world I've been to as well.

lol, every time I cruise the open forum, you are angrier about less. :D

Crossover seems to be the new wagon. People like to sit up higher = visibility. Personally, I definitely prefer the much higher stance of my work van over my commuter VW. I can see traffic better.

G-d knows why I might want a (new) car that's practical without driving like a truck. Every time I've rented a crossdresser, I've had the following observations:

Poor rear visibility: check.
Feels awkward and tippy: check.
Makes worse MPG than the equivalent sedan or wagon: check.

What is there not to like, huh? And maybe if the SUV trend hadn't got started, visibility around mobile mastodons wouldn't be such an issue. The average American auto buyer deserves to be painlessly euthanized. Nothing more, nothing less.

Fortunately, VW still have some offerings (Jetta and Passat wagons), though they're watered down and cheapened for the US market. Along with the Prius wagon and Honda Fit.

are you not an average American auto buyer? Says you reside in NYC, yet every post is how much Americans annoy you or/and are stupid/fat cretins. Curious what your nationality is, theres a lot of anger towards your countrymen/maybe not countrymen.

The saving grace of NYC is that over 50% of its population WASN'T BORN IN THE USA, which makes them infinitely more pleasant to deal with! We're New Yorkers, not Americans, though sadly we ended up tied politically to the rest of the country.

Besides, with about 4 million drivers, NYC doesn't decide the market for the rest of the USA. Frankly, if the US fell apart and NYC ended up a free city (like Singapore or pre-war Danzig) or part of Canada, it would be best for everyone.

I'm a dual citizen, let's leave it at that.

The Colorado standard cab really isnt any bigger---just wider, than the S10, nevertheless they all were to expensive pieces of Dung that cost as much as a full sized truck,,, no wonder they are not made anymore.
The Quality small pickup with features that make it competitive with a toyota is one of those vehicles the US car makers wont give us--thats just the way it is, Im looking for a used toyota like what Elchivito got-- somethingwithout the v6 piece of cheet, or maybe something with a dead one i can swap out an inline 3.0 something:).

lol, nice way of not answering the question. :D

I consider myself a New Yorker, not an American. And yes, the fact that the vehicles available in the Northeast and California are basically decided by the buying habits of midwestern and southern wannabe cowboys does chafe.

It doesn't help that American regulations are unnecessarily protectionist -- why not accept the results of equally strict Euro crash tests and similar emission tests, and allow the vehicles to be privately imported without additional testing or modification? Answer: because it's good for Detroit, the dealers (one of the most corrupt professions), and the official importers who can import only loaded cars at jacked up prices.

I rented a colorado once, and I did find the body styling appealing, but was upset at the lack of fuel economy, especially over a 500 mile business trip.

(also, I was "sidegraded" from the kia I had reserved, and told flat out by the rental guy that the colorado got within 3 MPG of the kia rio. :D) Fortunately, I was reimbursed for fuel consumption based on that lie.

Having grown up right outside of NYC, im aware thats not an uncommon mentality to have for new yorkers. :D

I have to wonder whether a 4-cyl gas direct injection engine (as Mazda and Hyundai are starting to use) could be convinced to break 30 mpg in a pickup.

There are also import restrictions to protect the US manufacturers.

Look up some details on the Ford Transit. They have windows installed in Turkey so they can be imported as "cars" then they have the windows removed and replaced with metal panels so they can be sold as "trucks."

To Outfox the Chicken Tax, Ford Strips Its Own Vans - WSJ.com

or here: Chicken tax - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Personally, I feel that if the Energy Dept or the feds really wanted to improve fuel mileage they should outlaw anything bigger than a 4 cylinder engine (6 cyl for diesels) in all cars and anything bigger than a six cylinder (8 cyl for diesel) in full size pick ups. I have not seen where higher fuel cost is driving ppl to more economical vehicles.

Ya'll remember a few years ago the gov't offered tax incentives for large gas guzzlers.

LOL I've seen that one too many times already. Must be tough driving in NYC :D

Right. Why don't we all just stand up during football games so we can all see better? I have a theory that a lot of the traffic snarl and delay is caused by not being able to see around or through these behemoths.

I guess you have ruled out the old VW Rabbit pickup for safety or price reasons. Mine gets a steady 50 mpg. I have carried as much as 700 pounds in the bed ( a Gravely walkbehind and accessories, a 240D engine) and its rated for 800 or so. Seems to me that the diesel competition back in the day got in the 40s.

I had a Colorado. In spite of not being a "Chevy guy", and the road tests, I found it a competent vehicle. Mine was a company vehicle and they went cheap. The vinyl flooring was OK, but the rigid seat backs ( no recline) in an extended cab was plain stupid. I thought the base 4 cyl was adequate. The only real complain was that the front wheel alignment was awful and burned up the front tires in a couple of thousand miles. The Dealer should have checked that--of course they claimed they did, and that the mis-alignment was due to my driving. Not true.
All in all it was adequate and competent--what more do you want in a utility pick up?
A guy ran a stop light and T-boned me. I was able to maneuver enough to force the collision at the rear axle, rather than the driver's door. Force of the impact tore the rear axle out of the vehicle. Totaled.

There's not enough people out there who want an inadequately sized pickup. I own one myself. 2000 S10/Sonoma. I thought it was a good idea at the time. It was not and I'll never buy a truck that's not full sized again.

- Peter.

Your theory is supported by some evidence:

Ideas & Trends: Heavy Traffic; No Wonder S.U.V.'s Are Called Light Trucks - Page 2 - New York Times

Trust me in saying this about NYC, The folks that live in the rest of NY would not feel any remorse. However their wallets would feel a lot better by not having to pay 8.75 % sales tax to support the island.

Hahahahahaha, seriously?

State sales tax is 4%: any increases over that level are a strictly local affair. City sales tax and income tax is somewhat made up for by the fact that property taxes within the 5 boroughs are some of the lowest in the state.

Amen. When they were offering the Liberty CRD in 05 and 06, starting at $25K, they sold like hotcakes - DC sold twice as many in the 18 months they were offered than they projected. Some dealers were getting PO'd because everyone that came in to look at a Liberty wanted a diesel - they couldn't sell a gas version to save their lives. No wonder - the gas version was lucky to get 20 mpg highway, while the diesel could easily do high 20's to low 30's - in a 4300 lb brick with an honest-to-gawd old-fashioned 4WD system.

The emissions standard they sold them under in 05 and 06 was a temporary deal by the EPA, that allowed them to sell XXX number in 05 and XX number in 06 - once they reached that magic number, they abruptly halted production in the middle of 06.

NOW do you guys understand why I want to take that '81 Ford Courier (aka Mazda B2000) with an electric drivetrain and only 25K miles on it, and drop in a VW AAZ (pre-TDI mechanical injection) turbo 4 cylinder diesel in it?

Some numbers:

U.S. EPA Tier 2, Bin 5 emission limits:

CO 3.4 g/mi
NOx 0.05 g/mi
HC 0.015 g/mi

Euro 5 standard for diesel passenger cars:

CO 0.5 g/km (0.8 g/mi)
NOx 0.18 g/km (1.28g/mi)
HC+NOx 0.23 g/km (0.368 g/mi)

My interpretation: The U.S. sets a really high limit on diesel CO emissions, which are typically very low even for old technology engines like mine, while making a stupidly difficult standard for NOx. The Euro rules still result in clean air, but with much lower cost of compliance. This needs fixing on our side of the pond.

Notes:

http://www.dieselnet.com/standards/us/ld_t2.php
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_emission_standards

Extra special note: It took me about 20 seconds to find the Euro standards. I had to dink about for a good ten minutes to find the U.S. standards.

A rabbit caddy would be ideal if it weren't essentially a deathtrap on wheels. Oldest I will go on the VWs is a MK2, and even then, only a 4 door jetta, no short golfs or 2 door variants. At least the MK2 has a little bit of a crumple zone, but its still a fluttering piece of tinfoil compared to a lot of other vehicles out there.

Ive got an 86 jetta I use with the same engine, the 1.6D NA, which I love.

The GF after 7 years of driving a 240 auto, and after a couple months of driving it in manual, just wants something with more power to begin with, and wants to go back to an automatic in a new car.

Now shes thinking maybe a subaru. Im kinda excited about the CVT transmissions in some of these subarus, might be very interesting to see.