Anyone reading up on the new refrigerant
 

that is coming?

This is out of an article from autocarepro. Here we go.

Link didn't work for me Jim.

So you and engatwork are on a first name basis? :eek:

Stupid. Automakers should move to R-744 (aka CO2) with a high-pressure sealed electric compressor. Basically non-toxic, CHEAP to replenish.

Good point Click. It might embarass him for me to do so.

I've known Jim via the forum for about 10 or 12 years and even spoke to him on the phone a long time ago.

If he would rather I not call him by his first name, I understand and will honor his request not to do so.

Sounds more than reasonable to me. :D

I will stick with propane. Thank you very much. :)

Not yet.

Briefly read about 744. Where are they using it sp?

Article in the NYT this week about the increase in air conditioning in Asia and the adverse effect on the environment of the gases. It pointed out that Europeans use propane in their refrigerators (it called the gas a hydrocarbon--not propane) and suggested that it would be good to use hydrocarbons in auto AC.

It would be good to use hydrocarbon refrigerants. They are cheaper and perform better. Unfortunately Dupont has the market cornered and hydrocarbon refrigerants dont have a prayer.

While buying some parts at the local GM dealer a few days ago I was talking to the counter guy who said that GM was going to this soon, he had heard in 2013 cars but maybe it would be phased in like R-134 was over a few months.

He quoted some figures that he said might not be accurate, but were close. R-12 will break down, when released, in something like 500 days. R-134 takes about 160 days. The new stuff breaks down in the atmosphere in 11 days.

I do recall when R-134 came out there was a big cry about using Propane but the DOT refused to allow it since it created a fire hazard in an accident. Of course the automotive press pointed out that gasoline never presents a fire hazard in a accident, but the DOT did not see the humor.

The big hazard with propane is the damage it would do to Dupont's bottom line. Propane sells for about 1$ per LB. Yet somehow its in our best interest to use the 60$-90$ per LB stuff. Considering my car holds about 100 LBS of gasoline, 1 LB of hydrocarbon refrigerant is obviously the greater danger.

What a racket:eek:.

A/C is for wimps anyways. No one had A/C 50+ 60+ years ago and somehow they all survived.

Well the DOT has common sense at least occasionally.

It goes back farther than that. Packard offered a/c in cars ca. 1940.

I understand what you're saying though. I was NEVER in an air conditioned class room before I was in college and this was in Texas heat.

I never drove a car with air conditioning until the seventies, again in the Texas heat.

All that said, TODAY I want working a/c. If you lived in Texas rather than Michigan, you might feel the same way.:eek::)

I saw one of these Packard's at the Pate Swap Meet about 20 years ago back when it was still at Pate's. No photos, but it looked like this....

There was a big air compressor looking thing mounted on the right hand side of the engine, up at the front where it could be belt driven. It had a lot of fins on it, like an air compressor on an old truck with air brakes. In fact, that's what I thought it was when I first saw it, but it had stronger looking hoses attached to it.

There was no clutch. It was more like a big flywheel, perhaps 14 inches across, and the seller of the car said to turn the air on you installed the drive belt and to turn it off you removed the drive belt.

That is, your driver did. I mean, how silly to think of an owner working on their own car!

The car I saw was not quite a basket case but it was close. If not for the A/C unit there would not have been much interest in the car.

The seller claimed the car was a 1939, but he had no way to know if the car came from the dealer with the A/C or if it was added later. Packard did not install the A/C unit, they sent it to an installer. Packard just paid for the development costs and then it was something for their dealers to sell that no one else had.

I know GM offered A/C as an option in 1951 with the A/C unit mounted in the trunk. Air was blown into the car through two tubes that came out of the rear package deck.

:) To all the Texans, perhaps you shouldn't live in a climate unfit for human habitation. As far as the Packard, if it's the big Packard I imagine it to be, the owner probably didn't work on it. He just had his mechanic or driver install the A/C belt every summer!

Sounds good to me, anyone seen one of these set-ups on a car?

Any special power/other requirements or limitations?

got a link spdrun?

DENSO Develops World's First CO2 Car Air Conditioner

There's a bunch more info if you google it.

Thanks for the link. I though I had googled it but had just came up with info on 744.

"Survived" is the operative word. Life was crap back then.

- Peter.

I'll remember that when you're dragging around in the snow this Winter.:D

Ah, but did they have global warming? There's the rub!

I love snow. Cross-country skiing is the bomb diggity. If I had infinite money, I'd probably have a vacation house up in Lake Arrowhead, northern Vermont, or Switzerland.

time to start buying R134a by the case at big lots

No one had internet forums either. :rolleyes: But you do seem to use this "convenience."

There was never an environmental problem with R12, the patent ran out and Dupont had their lobbyists B.S. politicians into adopting ITS new refrigerant 134. Looks like the same thing all over again.

I agree!

That brings up a question that might have already been answered in this thread. When the bring in the new brew, are they outlawing 134?

R12 is a cfc. Cfc's breakdown ozone. That much is fact. You could argue about the effect on the ozone layer versus the amount released into the atmosphere but I would say at a minimum r12 posed an enviromental concern.