12 Gauge Face-Slapped - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

retmil46 · #1 09-17-2012, 12:23 PM

Over the weekend, I rigged up a 30" by 30" foam board and cut out a bunch of same-sized sheets of wrapping paper, to do some patterning work on the Stoeger 20 gauge SXS, and perhaps try a couple of the older guns in the collection to see how they performed.

The one older gun I decided to try was the Hunter Arms Fulton 12 gauge SXS. With a Morgan recoil pad installed, it seemed to fit me as well or better as the Stoeger. I was also curious, as there are no discernable choke markings on the barrels (28"), and wanted to get an idea of how this thing was actually choked.

I had two boxes each of Remington Peters Special Dove Loads, 1 1/8 oz of 8 shot 3 dram equivalent, and Remington Heavy Dove Loads, 1 1/8 oz of 6 shot 3 1/4 dram equivalent. These boxes hadn't been touched in years, and the prices stickers were $4.49/box from Rose's Dept Store - these had apparently been buried in the bottom of the gun case for at least a couple decades. I grabbed two shells of each to run thru the Fulton.

I did the patterning at 30 yards, as I wanted to get something of an average for the ranges I'd be shooting at doves here around the house, around 20 to 40 yards.

I tried the supposedly lower-powered Peters shells first. That Fulton is not a light gun - it's heavier than the Stoeger, well over 7 lbs, and had a Morgan recoil pad installed - but it had noticeably more drop on the stock and downward pitch on the barrels than the Stoeger.

That gun face-slapped me so hard it made my neck hurt. And those Peters shells had enough oomph behind them that on both shots, the plastic wads punched two holes thru the paper and 1/8" foam board at 30 yards. By contrast, the Remington shells that supposedly had a higher powder loading kicked noticeably less and didn't replicate the feat of hitting the foam board with the wad, but I still got slapped pretty good.

I will say this - that Fulton is well regulated, and it will shoot dead-on where you point it. And with both 6 and 8 shot, it threw a nice-looking pattern from both barrels that covered the nearly all of the board - choked IC and LM if I had to venture a guess. That thing would be murder on doves inside of 40 yards - as long as I was wearing an effin neck brace!!

By contrast, I've shot 3 inch Federal Hi-Power shells, 1 1/4 oz of shot and nearly 3 1/2 dram equivalent, thru the Stoeger 20 gauge - and high brass 16 gauge loads thru that Winchester Model 24, which is considerably lighter than the above two guns - with no more effect than noticing a more pronounced shove against my shoulder.

Botnst · #2 09-17-2012, 12:35 PM

I've probably shot AT doves over 40 yds. I couldn't honestly say I ever hit one. I think most doves I've dropped have been under 30 yds. I use a 20 ga.

elchivito · #3 09-17-2012, 01:11 PM

Factory loads on sale. I'd rather shoot my 16, but shells are too pricey and hard to find. Distance? I don't know, 40 yds seems pretty long, 20-30 is probably typical.
I hit the doves I hit and I miss the ones I don't. I generally get my limit on native doves, but am liking the African Ringnecks better, especially since there's no limit.
If I had to think about it very hard the guns would stay put away...

Air&Road · #4 09-17-2012, 01:56 PM

Those are pretty heavy loads for dove. I expect that if you had your shoulder on slow motion video, you could have seen it move back about six inches.

Before I started shooting skeet and reloading about 15 years ago, I always used heavy field loads on quail and dove, and wondered why I had a bruised shoulder at the end of the day.

After I started shooting skeet I set up for reloading 12 and 28 gauge. As the bird seasons came and went since then I started loading very light 1 oz. 12 gauge loads with 8 shot for dove and started using my daughters 28 with skeet loads and just substituting 8 for 9 shot.

Before the fire ants took out all the quail around here, I was hunting quail successfully with the 28 and it made it more challenging and more fun. For me quail hunting is more about the dog than the shooting and I always had others with me to bring down birds for the dog if I was having a bad day.

Sounds like you've been getting in plenty of shooting. Enjoy.

retmil46 · #5 09-17-2012, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

I've probably shot AT doves over 40 yds. I couldn't honestly say I ever hit one. I think most doves I've dropped have been under 30 yds. I use a 20 ga.

Same here. I'm trying out the advice of a gent named Randy Wakeman - optimize the gun for the ranges and game you normally hunt - not some arbitrary standard of so many pellets inside a 30" circle at 40 yards.

Only way to know that is to go out and shoot at a paper target and find out what kind of average pattern it throws, not only with different chokes, but with different size shot and brands of shells as well - to find the combo that's going to maximize your chances of hitting something.

I only put 4 shells thru that Fulton, just out of curiosity to see what it would do - and had absolutely no further desire to do any more testing with it! That thing gave me enough of an instant flinch that I had to take some time out and settle down before I got down to serious work with the Stoeger 20 ga.

I've got a set of Trulock extended choke tubes for the Stoeger - IC, M, IM, and Full. I found out in short order that the IM and Full tubes should be reserved for antiaircraft work - with a low-powered target load of 1 oz of 8 shot, that Full tube threw a dense pattern that was barely a foot across at 30 yards - the IM tube wasn't much looser.

I tried some old Activ target loads with 1 oz 8 shot thru all four choke tubes, then also tried Winchester high brass heavy game loads with 1 oz of 6 shot, and some old Federal Hi-Power 3 inch roman candles with 1 1/4 oz of 6 shot, thru the IC and M tubes.

The M tube produced pretty decent patterns about 2 foot across with all three loads. But with the IC tube, the two smaller loads threw shot hither and yon, as if someone had taken random shots at the board with a BB gun. It was only with the 3 inch 1 1/4 oz load that the IC tube threw a decent pattern covering most of the board.

That seemed to mirror real life. Whilst shooting at Texas doves, the best luck I had was while using the IC and M tubes, with higher quality shells - Remington Nitro Pheasant 3 inch with 1 1/4 oz copper-plated 6 shot, and Fiocchi Golden Pheasant 3 inch with 1 1/4 oz nickel-plated 6 shot.

retmil46 · #6 09-17-2012, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Air&Road

Those are pretty heavy loads for dove. I expect that if you had your shoulder on slow motion video, you could have seen it move back about six inches.

Before I started shooting skeet and reloading about 15 years ago, I always used heavy field loads on quail and dove, and wondered why I had a bruised shoulder at the end of the day.

After I started shooting skeet I set up for reloading 12 and 28 gauge. As the bird seasons came and went since then I started loading very light 1 oz. 12 gauge loads with 8 shot for dove and started using my daughters 28 with skeet loads and just substituting 8 for 9 shot.

Yep, the Peters shells said "Special Dove Load" on the box - and believe me, they certainly were "special"!

But I've shot heavier 3 inch loads thru that Stoeger all day long, with no more discomfort or effort than if I were shooting 7/8 oz lite target loads. Same with that Winchester 16 ga SXS - I've shot high brass loads in it that were obstensibly loaded the same as those Peters shells - in a gun lighter than the Stoeger or Fulton - again with no discomfort at the end of the day.

Main difference I can think is that the Fulton has noticeably more drop on the stock, especially at the heel, than the other two guns - so that more of the recoil wants to go up instead of back.

retmil46 · #7 09-17-2012, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elchivito

Factory loads on sale. I'd rather shoot my 16, but shells are too pricey and hard to find.

Try the Brownell's or Cheaper Than Dirt websites, if you don't mind ordering them online. Just about every brand of shell you can think of, and seem to have a pretty good selection of 16 gauge as well.

Or if you want to try loading your own -

Largest selection of shotshell reloading components, tools, and accessories at Ballistic Products

These guys look to be fairly comprehensive as far as reloading equipment and supplies.

Air&Road · #8 09-17-2012, 03:48 PM

Reloading shotshells is economical and quickly done. I don't do much of either any more, but when I did I reloaded rifle ammo because I could make it more accurate and pistol/shotgun ammo because I could save money.

I reload shotshells with an MEC Jr. and can knock 'em out fast.

Botnst · #9 09-17-2012, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by retmil46

Same here. I'm trying out the advice of a gent named Randy Wakeman - optimize the gun for the ranges and game you normally hunt - not some arbitrary standard of so many pellets inside a 30" circle at 40 yards.

Only way to know that is to go out and shoot at a paper target and find out what kind of average pattern it throws, not only with different chokes, but with different size shot and brands of shells as well - to find the combo that's going to maximize your chances of hitting something.

I only put 4 shells thru that Fulton, just out of curiosity to see what it would do - and had absolutely no further desire to do any more testing with it! That thing gave me enough of an instant flinch that I had to take some time out and settle down before I got down to serious work with the Stoeger 20 ga.

I've got a set of Trulock extended choke tubes for the Stoeger - IC, M, IM, and Full. I found out in short order that the IM and Full tubes should be reserved for antiaircraft work - with a low-powered target load of 1 oz of 8 shot, that Full tube threw a dense pattern that was barely a foot across at 30 yards - the IM tube wasn't much looser.

I tried some old Activ target loads with 1 oz 8 shot thru all four choke tubes, then also tried Winchester high brass heavy game loads with 1 oz of 6 shot, and some old Federal Hi-Power 3 inch roman candles with 1 1/4 oz of 6 shot, thru the IC and M tubes.

The M tube produced pretty decent patterns about 2 foot across with all three loads. But with the IC tube, the two smaller loads threw shot hither and yon, as if someone had taken random shots at the board with a BB gun. It was only with the 3 inch 1 1/4 oz load that the IC tube threw a decent pattern covering most of the board.

That seemed to mirror real life. Whilst shooting at Texas doves, the best luck I had was while using the IC and M tubes, with higher quality shells - Remington Nitro Pheasant 3 inch with 1 1/4 oz copper-plated 6 shot, and Fiocchi Golden Pheasant 3 inch with 1 1/4 oz nickel-plated 6 shot.

You made me laugh out loud with that "anti-aircraft" comment!