Nah, the terms do not apply to those guys.

If anything he'd have been a free market libertarian and strong proponent of states rights to balance the fcentral government. Remember he was the greatest impediment to the new constitution because he feared that the central gov would become dictatorial rather than a partner with the states.

There also have been historical indications that he couldn't break his addiction to slave sex either. Supposedly he even was in love with one of them and fathered children with her. That said, who could possibly know the accuracy of such allegations. If it IS true, I and most people today wouldn't care, but in that time, that wouldn't have been information that he would have wanted to go public with. I don't even know if he was married or not. If he was married then that sheds a different light on this issue.

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Annoy a Liberal, Read the Constitution

on one hand, you state you have historical indications that he was addicted to slave sex.

On the other, you are apparently unaware if Thomas Jefferson, one of the founding fathers of this country, and a principle author of the declaration of independence was married or not.

For your information, he was married to a woman named Martha, and had 5 children (through her, slave children not sure)

I can't believe you don't know the second fact, and yet feel comfortable posting the first rumor/ story on the internet.

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I would have said he had three with his wife but thats just a guess from memory of a book read years ago.

I believe it is fairly well documented that he fathered one or more children with Sarah(?) Hemmings, a slave. I believe these all occurred after the death of his wife. I don't pretend to know the relationship between he and miss Hemmings. It could have been a loving one or not. I believe it is probably accurate to say though that it went on for a good long while.

The interactions between slave owners and slaves would be considered shocking by most of us here I suspect.

I also seem to remember that there was some possiblity that Jefferson's wife and Sarah Hemmings might have been cousins genetically or perhaps even had the same father....and that Hemmings bore some resemblence to his late wife. I believe that Sarah may have been his wife's servant long before she and Jefferson married and had grown up together (in the same house).

Put that in your pipe and smoke it!

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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

Thanks Tom,

If your memory is serving you correctly and the affair with Sarah was AFTER the death of his wife, that's a relief. I don't like thinking of one of our Founding Fathers as an adulterer, the lowest form of slime ball.

Thanks for filling in the gaps for me.

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Annoy a Liberal, Read the Constitution

As in all things, there are two sides to every story. I've spoken with people whose grandfathers owned plantations in the South. After the Civil War and In more than a few cases, the slaves chose to remain on the plantation. Why? They didn't have many other options and not all southern slave owners were cruel, many treated their slaves well.

One story that was shared with me was a (former) slave owner who, after the war, took one of his (former) slaves to New York City to see a play. The (former) slave owner paid for travel and paid for the tickets to the play. The (former) slave was the only black in the audience; everyone stared.

It is no secret that Jefferson's personal life was a wreck. If we only focus on that aspect of him, we may miss out on the message his writings contain.

There were even slave owners that were black themselves.

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Annoy a Liberal, Read the Constitution

I'd love to hear some stories from Black folks who felt the relationship between them and their masters was hunky dory.

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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

May I suggest a trip to the deep rural South and be prepared to stay awhile, ask questions and keep an open mind. Leave the benz home, get a pick up truck for the trip. As you drive along southern rural roads, you will see homes with a rather large Confederate Stars and Bars on display on a flag pole in the front yard. You will meet people who refuse to accept a check from anyone with the last name "Sherman". You will visit towns where time has stood still for over a hundred years and are to this day, segregated. Some of the accents are so thick you will need an interpreter to understand them. And, whatever you do, don't mention Lincoln, Washington DC or the Feds.

This is the America the six o'clock news refuses to discuss.

How many black folks display the confederate battle flags?

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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

A bit of history the public school system failed to share with you......

Black Confederates in the Civil War

40 years ago, my wife's best friend got married and moved to Atlanta. She ALWAYS had her name printed on her checks, so thought nothing of it, and was shocked that, as you say, many people refused to take them. Her name was Elizabeth Sherman Moody.

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Thanks for the article. How many black folks display the confederate battle flag today?

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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

who knows? There are thousands of miles of Southern rural roads and I haven't traveled all of them........yet. There are a lot of people in the south and many stories yet untold.

encountered this as well recently when visiting south.

last name = Grant

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