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  #31  
Old 09-28-2012, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by MTUpower View Post
...He was clearly talking about business owners to non business owners (who assumed the business owners were rich and did not pay enough taxes)...
Really? That's not clear to me at all.
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...and how he believes others have had a hand in the success of the business- teachers have had a hand- the american system had a hand- the government had a hand (by "investing" in roads and bridges.)...
Absolutely correct. You disagree with that?
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Why on earth would an otherwise intelligent person say roads and bridges were "invested" by the government ... and then say they were not built by the business man?...
"otherwise intelligent"

To answer your question, an otherwise intelligent person would say that because it is true.
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Make zero sense- even Elchivito does not take your view- "His point that most successful people owe their success at least in part to others and sometimes even to a government leg-up is hardly revolutionary."
I agree with that interpretation.
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I did not create the thread to rehash this - but instead to compare a "funny" video about policy views to a "funny" derogatory/hateful term applied to a person which you supported.
That's fine. I just don't see the video being much an analogy to the stench thing.

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  #32  
Old 09-28-2012, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by MTUpower View Post
...Now you are just hiding and lying.
Geez.
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  #33  
Old 09-28-2012, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by MTUpower View Post
Delusion and positions of high power are certainly not mutually exclusive by any means (quite the opposite); is it your contention they are?
No, but this particular delusion that you ascribe to Obama - that it's government that builds businesses - would only be held by someone who completely misunderstands what American life is all about. It seems odd that someone who so completely misses the point would be able to connect with the voters the way Obama has.
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What BS you weave.
It's always such a pleasure to converse with you.
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  #34  
Old 09-28-2012, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Honus View Post
What are you talking about? I'm the one who gave the full quote. You deleted whole sentences. And you say that I "chose to ignore the relevant part"?

Here it is again:Your interpretation is unreasonable. In fact, I would be surprised if you disagree with Obama's overall point that people would have a hard time building businesses if we didn't have infrastructure. If you read the whole paragraph that I quoted, it is obvious that he is talking about infrastructure. You reach into the middle of his statement, pull out some words that support your point and then attempt to say that's what Obama meant. It's not fair.
I do not disagree with Obama's overall point.

However, it is not obvious to me that he is talking solely about infrastructure because of the statement "If you've got a business--you didn't build that".

He could have said, "If you've got a business, the invested infrastructure helped you to build that".

But, he didn't. His choice of words is telling as to the way he thinks and I am of the firm belief that he was not referring to roads and bridges when he made the statement. He believes that entire community deserves the credit for the work that an individual put in to build a business and he wants a big chunk of it.

Isn't this obvious to you?
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  #35  
Old 09-28-2012, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Brian Carlton View Post
...He believes that entire community deserves the credit for the work that an individual put in to build a business and he wants a big chunk of it.

Isn't this obvious to you? [emphasis added]
If you changed "the credit" to "some credit" then I might agree with your interpretation, depending on how you define "big."

If "big" means that we return to something like the policies of the 1990s, then I agree. If you suggest that Obama would want to go beyond that, then I disagree and would ask for something to substantiate your interpretation.
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  #36  
Old 09-28-2012, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Honus View Post
If you changed "the credit" to "some credit" then I might agree with your interpretation, depending on how you define "big."

If "big" means that we return to something like the policies of the 1990s, then I agree. If you suggest that Obama would want to go beyond that, then I disagree and would ask for something to substantiate your interpretation.
I don't wish to parse words with you.

Fundamentally, Obama wants more of what a small business owner has created. He justifies this by arguing that the business owner didn't build the business by himself. In reality, the small business owner did build the business by himself and paid taxes for the roads and the schools just like everybody else who did not build the business by themselves. His argument is fundamentally flawed.

In fact, that small business owner surely paid 10X the taxes of folks who did not build the business and take the risk. Obama belittles their accomplishment and attempts to justify his behavior by making a statement that is grossly unfair.

I have no idea how much Obama would take from this small business person, but I'm sure it would be significant if he had his way.

The clip is funny because any person other than yourself understands Obama's implication. You have managed to defend Obama by associating his statement with "roads and bridges" which is not who the man actually is.
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  #37  
Old 09-28-2012, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Brian Carlton View Post
...In reality, the small business owner did build the business by himself and paid taxes for the roads and the schools just like everybody else who did not build the business by themselves....
Obama has never said anything inconsistent with that.
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... The clip is funny because any person other than yourself understands Obama's implication....
That's silly. Your interpretation might be correct, but I am not the only person who disagrees with you on this.
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  #38  
Old 09-28-2012, 10:51 AM
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  #39  
Old 09-28-2012, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Honus View Post
This is what I am talking about.

Here's a rhetorical question: Does anyone think it is fair to take a sentence out of the middle of a speaker's statement and say that he should be held to the apparent meaning of that sentence, without regard to the full context? Is that fair?

Here's another rhetorical question: If Obama believes that people don't build their own businesses and that it's really the government that build them, how in the **** has someone that delusional made it as far in life as he has?

THE SENTENCE STANDS ALONE!!!!!!!! Even when read IN that entire paragraph, it is VERY clear, that is to those of us who are not afflicted with the BLIND ZEALOUSNESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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  #40  
Old 09-28-2012, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Honus View Post
This is what I am talking about.

Here's a rhetorical question: Does anyone think it is fair to take a sentence out of the middle of a speaker's statement and say that he should be held to the apparent meaning of that sentence, without regard to the full context? Is that fair?

Here's another rhetorical question: If Obama believes that people don't build their own businesses and that it's really the government that build them, how in the **** has someone that delusional made it as far in life as he has?

This is the most mysterious question of all!!!!!!!!! The answer is in the blind zealousness of you all.
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  #41  
Old 09-28-2012, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Honus View Post
Obama has never said anything inconsistent with that.
It's sad that you don't see the man through his words and deeds.



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Originally Posted by Honus View Post
That's silly. Your interpretation might be correct, but I am not the only person who disagrees with you on this.
Well, if I'm silly, I've got a lot of company.

BTW, I don't see a lot of support on the forum for your position on this. But, maybe the forum is not representative of society at large and I'm sure you can get some Obama ideologues to chime in for you.
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  #42  
Old 09-28-2012, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Honus View Post
Really? That's not clear to me at all.Absolutely correct. You disagree with that?"otherwise intelligent"

To answer your question, an otherwise intelligent person would say that because it is true.I agree with that interpretation.That's fine. I just don't see the video being much an analogy to the stench thing.
Not much is clear to you so let's see the presidents own words in that same CAMPAIGN EVENT SPEECH. He is speaking to his own audience at a campaign event- do you believe there are more small business owners there or non business owners? Do you believe he is talking to people that want lower taxes on business?


Let's look at previous talking points of that same speech:

" There are a lot of wealthy, successful Americans who agree with me -- because they want to give something back. They know they didn’t -- look, if you’ve been successful, you didn’t get there on your own. You didn’t get there on your own. "

Does this comment have anything to do with the building of bridges? No- it has to do with the redistribution of wealth message.

"The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together.
"

More of the same idea- the business owner did not build the business(him or herself). The roads and the bridges had about as much to do with the success of the business as the failure of any given business.


You show the blind faith of a LWNJ.
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  #43  
Old 09-28-2012, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Honus View Post
No, but this particular delusion that you ascribe to Obama - that it's government that builds businesses - would only be held by someone who completely misunderstands what American life is all about. It seems odd that someone who so completely misses the point would be able to connect with the voters the way Obama has.It's always such a pleasure to converse with you.
I ascribe no such view of BHO's particular delusion nor have I said I do. I believe individuals efforts build businesses- so it's quite the opposite of what you believe I think. I ought to know more about that than you since you are speaking of MY VIEW.
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  #44  
Old 09-28-2012, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by MTUpower View Post
Let's look at previous talking points of that same speech:

" There are a lot of wealthy, successful Americans who agree with me -- because they want to give something back. They know they didn’t -- look, if you’ve been successful, you didn’t get there on your own. You didn’t get there on your own. "
[B]
Take a look at the bold type.

He started a sentence and then stopped because he realized he'd be crucified if he finished it.

My bet is that the entire sentence would have went as follows"

"They know they didn't build it on their own."


But, he stopped and qualified it to say that "you didn't get there on your own".


His meaning is perfectly clear to anyone who isn't blind.
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  #45  
Old 09-28-2012, 11:52 AM
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It's very simple.........

The root of 0bama's message is simply hate the rich. Straight out of Marx..........

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