what is the big deal with Michigans right to work vote - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

MTI · #1 12-11-2012, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Palangi

Sorta like 0bama Care ............

Appears so, so there must be no objection to either laws passage.

MS Fowler · #2 12-12-2012, 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Palangi

Sorta like 0bama Care ............

Not to hi jack this thread, but I just heard a report on the radio that it was unlikely that the "fiscal cliff " could be averted before New Years--and the reason? There wasn't time to put a deal in proper legislative language, and no time FOR THE LEGISLATORS TO READ IT!
I nearly spit my coffee on the windshield.
They passed Obamacare w/o reading it--it barely got printed. And all the defenders of that Bill pontificated that no one ever expects them to actually read what they are voting on.
Of course there is TIME to pass a Bill averting the fiscal cliff--there is no DESIRE to do it.

t walgamuth · #3 12-12-2012, 07:35 AM

I bet there are very few bills that our legislators vote on that they have read completely.

They have staff to do that. The staff gives them the big picture and most of the time, frankly, that is enough.

The right acts as if this is just the healthcare bill that did not get read.

MS Fowler · #4 12-12-2012, 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth

I bet there are very few bills that our legislators vote on that they have read completely.

They have staff to do that. The staff gives them the big picture and most of the time, frankly, that is enough.

The right acts as if this is just the healthcare bill that did not get read.

That wasn't my take. It was the way that not having time to read the bill would prevent it from being voted on before the "cliff". They will vote how their leadership tells them, extracting whatever $$ they can for their own constituency, if their vote is deemed critical.

aklim · #5 12-12-2012, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth

I bet there are very few bills that our legislators vote on that they have read completely.

They have staff to do that. The staff gives them the big picture and most of the time, frankly, that is enough.

You never heard the phrase "The devil is in the details"?

SwampYankee · #6 12-12-2012, 07:45 AM

Typical weasel politician behavior (sliding bills in during lame-duck sessions).

That said, it's ironic that the opponents to RTW claim that it anti-worker. I'm not sure how giving an employee the choice to join a union or not is anti-worker, it gives them an option that (generally) wouldn't otherwise be there. If they think the union works for them, they can join. If they don't think the union works for them, they won't be forced against their will.

It's undoubtedly anti-union since they want every employee under their control and paying dues.

aklim · #7 12-11-2012, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elchivito

Looks to me like the biggest issue is the way in which the law change was undertaken. Pretty sneaky if you ask me.

I'm asking. Why do you think it was sneaky? Did you mean it was sneaky like the way most laws are done or more sneaky than usual?

Mark Rapier · #8 12-11-2012, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by engatwork

What is the big deal with this? In my opinion, every worker should have the option to not to be a member of the union if they do not want to be a member. Other than the loss of the union dues (to keep the union officials Gulfstreams flying) what is the big deal?

The unions racketeers tried to ammend the Michigan State Constitution with proposals #2 and #4 in the November election and the electorate by a wide margin defeated both measures. The newly passed RTW laws are the reaction by the legislature responding to the recent vote of their constituents to reign in the power of organized labor by denying it the right to extort funding from non union members.

Labor had become too powerful and too arrogant wielding its power and the citizens/taxpayers and their elected representatives recognised that and have taken the steps to thwart such power and to thwart the future abuse of power by diminishing it.

"for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction"

Benz Fan · #9 12-12-2012, 01:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Rapier

The unions racketeers tried to ammend the Michigan State Constitution with proposals #2 and #4 in the November election and the electorate by a wide margin defeated both measures. The newly passed RTW laws are the reaction by the legislature responding to the recent vote of their constituents to reign in the power of organized labor by denying it the right to extort funding from non union members.

Labor had become too powerful and too arrogant wielding its power and the citizens/taxpayers and their elected representatives recognised that and have taken the steps to thwart such power and to thwart the future abuse of power by diminishing it.

"for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction"

Phil! How've you been?!? What are you giving Anne for Christmas?

PM me if you're interested in how you gave yourself away - again.

whunter · #10 12-12-2012, 03:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Rapier

The unions racketeers tried to amend the Michigan State Constitution with proposals #2 and #4 in the November election and the electorate by a wide margin defeated both measures. The newly passed RTW laws are the reaction by the legislature responding to the recent vote of their constituents to reign in the power of organized labor by denying it the right to extort funding from non union members.

Labor had become too powerful and too arrogant wielding its power and the citizens/taxpayers and their elected representatives recognized that and have taken the steps to thwart such power and to thwart the future abuse of power by diminishing it.

"for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction"

FYI:

Michigan has one of the worst economies in the U.S.

The unions tried to force through state constitution amendments that would have crippled Michigan government and business.

Extreme Union arrogance backfired when the constitutional amendments FAILED.
These where funded - pushed by union money...
* Proposal 2: failed at the polls Result: Yes:41% No:59%.
* Proposal 4: failed at the polls Result: Yes:42% No:58%
The State News :: All Michigan ballot proposals fail in election

Too many people here have direct negative union experience.
Here is a boringly common example of the local unions.
Chrysler Had To Rehire The Workers Caught Getting Stoned During Lunch

Note: The POTUS came in working as a union activist trying to crush "Right To Work"..

2011 House Bill 4003: Extend "right-to-work" law to government and school employees - Michigan Votes

Michigan Is a Right-to-Work State [Michigan Capitol Confidential]

.

strelnik · #11 12-19-2012, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whunter

FYI:

Michigan has one of the worst economies in the U.S.

The unions tried to force through state constitution amendments that would have crippled Michigan government and business.

Extreme Union arrogance backfired when the constitutional amendments FAILED.
These where funded - pushed by union money...
* Proposal 2: failed at the polls Result: Yes:41% No:59%.
* Proposal 4: failed at the polls Result: Yes:42% No:58%
The State News :: All Michigan ballot proposals fail in election

Too many people here have direct negative union experience.
Here is a boringly common example of the local unions.
Chrysler Had To Rehire The Workers Caught Getting Stoned During Lunch

Note: The POTUS came in working as a union activist trying to crush "Right To Work"..

2011 House Bill 4003: Extend "right-to-work" law to government and school employees - Michigan Votes

Michigan Is a Right-to-Work State [Michigan Capitol Confidential]

.

Curiously enough, when I asked my friends who are retired UAW workers, one for 40 years, they AGREED with RTW.

Why?

They say the union spent 17 million of their union dues, they said, on contributions to local and national p[oliticians with NO VOTE or rank and fuile approval.

These same officials recently rebuilt their offices in the union halls.

These guys said they were tired of their money going to causes like this without their consent.

Well, ok, it's their money and their opinion.

I have not been a member of a union since 1969. I've done ok, based on hard work, persistence and being prepared.

I truly believe that chance favors the prepared, and YES everyone has to struggle, but we make choices that are pivotal events.

Oh, one other thing: life is not fair.

My son saw this all and understands it now. major victory for his maturity.

Air&Road · #12 12-12-2012, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Rapier

The unions racketeers tried to ammend the Michigan State Constitution with proposals #2 and #4 in the November election and the electorate by a wide margin defeated both measures. The newly passed RTW laws are the reaction by the legislature responding to the recent vote of their constituents to reign in the power of organized labor by denying it the right to extort funding from non union members.

Labor had become too powerful and too arrogant wielding its power and the citizens/taxpayers and their elected representatives recognised that and have taken the steps to thwart such power and to thwart the future abuse of power by diminishing it.

"for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction"

VERY well said!

In the very early years of my career, I went to work as an electronic technician at a large plant in Dallas. When I started, the Union guy sat down with me and explained very politely and professionally that, (paraphrasing) "we have a union, and I am the steward. We would like for you to join our union (and all the reasons why I should in his sales pitch,) he said that if I elected NOT to join, if an issue came up they would support me anyway."

I politely declined to join their union and if I had ever needed their help, I would have let management escort me to the gate before I would have asked for help from an organization to which I chose not to pay dues. It would have been very unfair of me to do so.

My point? Union and non union employees CAN mix, if everyone is reasonable and professional about it.

aklim · #13 12-12-2012, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Air&Road

VERY well said!

In the very early years of my career, I went to work as an electronic technician at a large plant in Dallas. When I started, the Union guy sat down with me and explained very politely and professionally that, (paraphrasing) "we have a union, and I am the steward. We would like for you to join our union (and all the reasons why I should in his sales pitch,) he said that if I elected NOT to join, if an issue came up they would support me anyway."

I politely declined to join their union and if I had ever needed their help, I would have let management escort me to the gate before I would have asked for help from an organization to which I chose not to pay dues. It would have been very unfair of me to do so.

My point? Union and non union employees CAN mix, if everyone is reasonable and professional about it.

EXACTLY. You have NO, ZERO, NONE WHATSOEVER right to go crying to the union if you don't support them with your dues. It would be like me crashing my car and then buying insurance. Buy before the crash or don't.

Jim B. · #14 12-12-2012, 06:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by engatwork

What is the big deal with this? In my opinion, every worker should have the option to not to be a member of the union if they do not want to be a member. Other than the loss of the union dues (to keep the union officials Gulfstreams flying) what is the big deal?

It is the "right to work" for a whole lot less money.

aklim · #15 12-12-2012, 07:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim B.

It is the "right to work" for a whole lot less money.

Or the right not be be pressganged into a club you don't want to be in. Unless you ASSUME everyone wants to be in it. In which case, there is no issue since they will want to be in it.