Robert Bosch - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

aklim · #16 01-14-2013, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerry

Yes. The book is about those who disliked the Nazis enough to try to kill Hitler. I have wondered in the past why the coup attempt came so late in the game, and it was partly because a fair number of the conspirators acted because they wanted to be in a stronger position to negotiate surrender with the Allies.

I would think that it depends on where the malcontent is. As a buck Private, probably wouldn't matter. OTOH, if the big guy on top decides to switch, he has the power and the intelligence to make it happen. When the war starts going badly, it will make people wonder if they are on the right side and whether they will lose and what will happen. At that point, it might be a good thing to switch sides.

aklim · #17 01-14-2013, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Clk Man

Mercedes Makes It, Bosch Shakes It?

DP told me that.

Who is DP? Double Penetration?

aklim · #18 01-14-2013, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HuskyMan

There were approximately 40 attempts on Hitler's life. Over 2000 people were devoted solely to his security while Churchill had only a hand full of security people. Also, Hitler would change travel plans on the fly which also helped to keep his enemies off balance. The German resistance repeatedly requested assistance in planning an assassination of Hitler from both England and the United States and yet were told "no deal". I've discussed this matter with others and there seems to be a feeling that countries do not want to be involved in the assassination of another country's leader for political reasons.

However, I think we can all agree that had Hitler been killed early in the game, WWII may not have happened. The other side of the coin is that war is big business. As a result of WWII, manufacturing in all countries stepped up in a big way giving people JOBS which stabilized their economies. The United States was no exception and many defense contractors benefited in a big way as a result of WWII.

Does that mean that wars are the result of international conspiracies to improve economies? I don't know, you tell me......

If you want to look for conspiracies, you will find them. The theory you put forth is good EXCEPT for one problem. It doesn't seem to hold water. Other than that, it is a nice sounding theory.

Europe was in a mess. Further to that, how would anyone know which way the war would turn out? Had Hitler won, well, we would be exchanging Sieg Heil greetings instead of "Hi, How are you today". All the jobs wouldn't help if you are in a concentration camp or worse.

HuskyMan · #19 01-14-2013, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

If you want to look for conspiracies, you will find them. The theory you put forth is good EXCEPT for one problem. It doesn't seem to hold water. Other than that, it is a nice sounding theory.

Europe was in a mess. Further to that, how would anyone know which way the war would turn out? Had Hitler won, well, we would be exchanging Sieg Heil greetings instead of "Hi, How are you today". All the jobs wouldn't help if you are in a concentration camp or worse.

Ask Lockheed, Bell Helicopter, Boeing, General Dynamics, McDonnell Douglas and IBM if it doesn't hold water.......

Pooka · #20 01-14-2013, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

I would think that it depends on where the malcontent is. As a buck Private, probably wouldn't matter. OTOH, if the big guy on top decides to switch, he has the power and the intelligence to make it happen. When the war starts going badly, it will make people wonder if they are on the right side and whether they will lose and what will happen. At that point, it might be a good thing to switch sides.

An old CIA saying.... "Everyone loves a Dictator until the last five minutes."

aklim · #21 01-14-2013, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HuskyMan

Ask Lockheed, Bell Helicopter, Boeing, General Dynamics, McDonnell Douglas and IBM if it doesn't hold water.......

You are speaking as thought they KNEW from the get go that the Germans would lose the war. Yes, if they did, it makes sense. But what would happen to those companies had Germany won?

aklim · #22 01-14-2013, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pooka

And old CIA saying.... "Everyone loves a Dictator until the last five minutes."

As long as the going is good, you are well loved. When it starts going south, time to watch out. Such is life.

HuskyMan · #23 01-14-2013, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

You are speaking as thought they KNEW from the get go that the Germans would lose the war. Yes, if they did, it makes sense. But what would happen to those companies had Germany won?

Once Walter Langer performed his analysis of Hitler along with intelligence gathering, the United States and England KNEW Germany was going to lose. But, had Germany won, we might have better built roads......

aklim · #24 01-14-2013, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HuskyMan

Once Walter Langer performed his analysis of Hitler along with intelligence gathering, the United States and England KNEW Germany was going to lose. But, had Germany won, we might have better built roads......

A psychoanalyst predicting which way the war would have gone? Seriously? That shows that they already know the outcome? Next you will tell me of Ms Cleo's prediction.

HuskyMan · #25 01-14-2013, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

A psychoanalyst predicting which way the war would have gone? Seriously? That shows that they already know the outcome? Next you will tell me of Ms Cleo's prediction.

Langer accurately predicted Hitler's suicide. Once a country's leader puts a bullet to his own head, the rest of his plan is mute.

aklim · #26 01-14-2013, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HuskyMan

Langer accurately predicted Hitler's suicide. Once a country's leader puts a bullet to his own head, the rest of his plan is mute.

Nostradamus also predicted a lot of things that came out right. Regardless, at the early stages, how would anyone have known what would happen? Would you trust it all to a prediction? If you are looking for a conspiracy theory, AFTER THE FACT, sure. Oddsmakers constantly predict the outcome of a game right too. However, would YOU bet your life on it? I wouldn't. Again, looking back, you can say that it was the right bet but at the time? Back when Hitler rose to power, I doubt that anyone could have accurately predicted how it would go.

HuskyMan · #27 01-14-2013, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

Nostradamus also predicted a lot of things that came out right. Regardless, at the early stages, how would anyone have known what would happen? Would you trust it all to a prediction? If you are looking for a conspiracy theory, AFTER THE FACT, sure. Oddsmakers constantly predict the outcome of a game right too. However, would YOU bet your life on it? I wouldn't. Again, looking back, you can say that it was the right bet but at the time? Back when Hitler rose to power, I doubt that anyone could have accurately predicted how it would go.

Hate to break it to you, but the U.S. government asked Walter Langer to perform an exhaustive analysis of Hitler. It had never been done the way they asked him to do it. And, he hit the nail on the head and called the ball. You would have to understand psychology, sociology and psychiatry to appreciate the full impact of Langer's work.

aklim · #28 01-14-2013, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HuskyMan

Hate to break it to you, but the U.S. government asked Walter Langer to perform an exhaustive analysis of Hitler. It had never been done the way they asked him to do it. And, he hit the nail on the head and called the ball. You would have to understand psychology, sociology and psychiatry to appreciate the full impact of Langer's work.

Wow! Really? I guess I will be more impressed. NOT! With all the losers they picked, surely one or two right answers don't mean much, unless they just happen to reinforce your point.

I understand enough of those disciplines to know that I wouldn't bet my life on them. The question still remains, would YOU? Just because he predicted it right then doesn't mean squat. When you feel certain enough to bet on a decision someone of his ilk makes and when I say bet, I mean bet your life, call me.

Jim B. · #29 01-14-2013, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerry

Yes. The book is about those who disliked the Nazis enough to try to kill Hitler. I have wondered in the past why the coup attempt came so late in the game, and it was partly because a fair number of the conspirators acted because they wanted to be in a stronger position to negotiate surrender with the Allies.

Perhaps the conspirators knew retaliation would be harsh if an assassination attempt failed.

It was.

Count Claus von Stauffenberg, who planted the actual bomb, got caught first, was immediately caught when he got back to Berlin, and was stood up against a brick wall, framed by the headlights of a police car, and shot to death by the dreaded SD, (the security arm of the SS).

When the July 20, 1944 officer's attempt at the Wolf's Lair, Hitler's HQ in East Prussia, failed, a hastily convened "People's Court" went into session, and the best their "lawyers" could argue as a defense was that their clients be shot rather than hung.

However even this, was to no avail.

The executions were carried out with grim teutonic efficiency in short order.

The defendents were hung from the ceiling from meat hooks, and in some cases piano wire, and their agonizing deaths were each filmed, and the movies were susequently widely shown as a strong deterrent to any future such attempts.

(Field Marshall Erwin Rommel, the famed "Desert Fox", who was only peripherally involved, in deference to his wartime heroism, was allowed a choice of suicide or execution, and unsurprisingly, took his own life.)

HuskyMan · #30 01-15-2013, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim B.

Perhaps the conspirators knew retaliation would be harsh if an assassination attempt failed.

It was.

Count Claus von Stauffenberg, who planted the actual bomb, got caught first, was immediately caught when he got back to Berlin, and was stood up against a brick wall, framed by the headlights of a police car, and shot to death by the dreaded SD, (the security arm of the SS).

When the July 20, 1944 officer's attempt at the Wolf's Lair, Hitler's HQ in East Prussia, failed, a hastily convened "People's Court" went into session, and the best their "lawyers" could argue as a defense was that their clients be shot rather than hung.

However even this, was to no avail.

The executions were carried out with grim teutonic efficiency in short order.

The defendents were hung from the ceiling from meat hooks, and in some cases piano wire, and their agonizing deaths were each filmed, and the movies were susequently widely shown as a strong deterrent to any future such attempts.

(Field Marshall Erwin Rommel, the famed "Desert Fox", who was only peripherally involved, in deference to his wartime heroism, was allowed a choice of suicide or execution, and unsurprisingly, took his own life.)

Sadly, the German resistance had asked for help in planning an assassination of Hitler from both England and the United States but were told no. I believe that had the resistance received support from either England or the United States, they very well may have been successful in offing Hitler. But, then, the war would have turned out differently and with Hitler making the very stupid decision to invade Russia, it opened the door for the Ruskies to control parts of Germany post WWII.

By the time the German people realized what was going on, the Nazi party had so much power that nobody could lift a finger against them. They had voted a certified lunatic into power.

Germany is still occupied by foreign powers to this day.