Oh man, ain't that the truth, and that's only one player in that direction.

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1986 300SDL, 362K
1984 300D, 138K

You and I are in complete agreement on the 'nature vs nurture' debate. I see no reason biologically to think in terms of superiority between races or nations or religions.

However, I think it is entirely reasonable to search for and try to explain moral differences among cultures. And some of these differences are absolute. Bashing women with stones for promiscuity seems a likely difference in morality in which one could reasonably argue that a culture that does not bash promiscuous women is superior to one that does. Likewise, a culture that promotes liberty is superior to one that promotes despotism. Etc.

Hi! I'm Jorn! I don't want to see that stuff because my life's views could take a hit if I look at things as they are, not as I want them to be. People are good and no one can be evil unless they are politically on the right. I've gotten used to to people trying to change me, but change is only good when others do it, or when it's from Mr Obama.

The differences are pretty stark, at least in the present moment. Unwed mothers often fared quite poorly in some of our European ancestor nations a few hundred years ago and earlier or so I gather.

Trying to understand is laudable but the explaining part assumes a solid conclusion and I think that is elusive. A lot of what we humans do looks like a lengthy trial and error process.

I've stumbled a good deal in my life owing to arrogance and I'm trying to cease and desist with that. The business of deciding that our culture is better than this or that culture doesn't seem like a useful sentiment to me. Plenty of examples of folly on display here.

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1986 300SDL, 362K
1984 300D, 138K

You so wrong.

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1979 Black on Black, 300CD (sold), 1990 Black 300SE, Silver 1989 Volvo 780, 1988 300CE (vanished by the hands of a girlfriend), 1992 300CE (Rescue).

Do you think that bashing women with stones is ever an appropriate judicial proceeding? I don't. To me, that is a moral difference, and mine is superior.

Of course it isn't. Can you be certain that your ancestors didn't engage in such behavior?

Every society is in a different state of evolution. Not sure that the claiming of superiority is a useful thing.

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1986 300SDL, 362K
1984 300D, 138K

I am not a Mormon and cannot bring myself to pray for the baptism and absolution of my ancestor's sins.

We live now. We can never live at any other time. History is interesting and often instructive but not definitive for current behavior.

If we want to do some sort of historical comparison that's fine. But that's not what's going on in this thread. So start a thread so we can compare historical trends between cultures. Sounds interesting.

Good Lord. I'm not trying to regurgitate some long lost Mormon instincts and urge prayer for the dead. I'm saying that judging the morality of others is problematic. If we are spawned from peoples with similar ignorance who somehow managed to evolve to greater civility, can't we allow that others may be on a similar evolutionary path?

My feeling are much more Buddhist or Zen in nature. Was reading one of my favorite little texts today (quite little - 3 or 4 pages), it spells out some of my POV on the matter, not that I've mastered the thing but that's what I aspire to.

The Hsin Hsin Ming (partial)

The Great Way is not difficult for those who have no preferences. When love and hate are both absent everything becomes clear and undisguised.
Make the smallest distinction, however, and heaven and earth are set infinitely apart.
If you wish to see the truth then hold no opinions for or against anything.
To set up what you like against what you dislike is the disease of the mind.
When the deep meaning of things is not understood the mind's essential peace is disturbed to no avail.

Hsin-hsin-ming Verses on the Faith Mind

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1986 300SDL, 362K
1984 300D, 138K

I completely agree.

The women bashers, honor killers, etc. are pretty hard to take. I get some encouragement from the horrible story of Lara Logan in Egypt. In the midst of the mob of low-life punks raping her (with hands) and trying to pull her hair out, a group of other Egyptians enveloped her, the women hugging her closely, while the men beat the mob back. Then the soldiers who had billy-clubbed their way into the crowd found her, one soldier slung her over his shoulder and took her out, beating the crowd back as he did so. That there was one tough sum-b!tch.

Not everyone in those nations is a troglodyte inbred. The percentage is too high to be sure but there is some hope.

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1986 300SDL, 362K
1984 300D, 138K

Yep. Plenty of good people in Egypt and all of Islam, for that matter. As we agreed previously, humans are the same regardless of race, religion or nationality.

Culturally they differ wildly. Some cultures are clearly better than others and some are clearly a threat to everybody outside of their culture. Take Aztecs, for example. Want them as your cultural neighbor? I don't. But their descendents are fine folks. Now part of our (western) culture.

Is our culture 'best' in all regards? Certainly not! But I think I can defend my opinion that western cultural attributes of law, property, and liberty are generally superior to most other cultures in those attributes.

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'06 E320 CDI
'17 Corvette Stingray Vert

I don't see my view of your posting to be inaccurate- thus "wrong". I agree to a point with both Bot and Cmac about societies, people and how to view life. Your postings consistently ignore the overwhelming violence of Muslims around the world as compared to other religions or groups.
I tell myself as Cmac's text suggests to divorce myself from the situation and look at it as if it does not effect me in any way shape or form. I do my best to not make the call before the information is complete and I disregard my personal view. Then I make a call. I don't see that in your posts. Perhaps you don't see that in my posts either but there should be no denying this is the way to make judgement calls about situations.