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Quote:

Originally Posted by cmac2012 (Post 3154101)

One would hope the cops could order him to drop his weapon while ready to shoot him if he instead made a move to raise it towards them. Experienced cops will probably do that. Word I read is that the cops in question were devastated by this. Their journey towards being experienced cops is underway.

Or ended. This sort of thing does not bode well for their future as law enforcement officers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth (Post 3154117)

Or ended. This sort of thing does not bode well for their future as law enforcement officers.

For sure, from what I've read, they have some kind of a "three strikes and your out" system. Which most likely means these particular cops may be allowed two more screw-ups before the City of Fort Worth decides that perhaps they are more a liability than an asset. Let's hope the next two screw-ups aren't as devastating. OTH, if a wrongful death lawsuit is brought against the City, they may decide to absolve themselves of more liabilities by firing the cops who were involved.

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth (Post 3154117)

Or ended. This sort of thing does not bode well for their future as law enforcement officers.

This. those two should never even be an unarmed mall cop after this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Txjake (Post 3154129)

This. those two should never even be an unarmed mall cop after this.

Correct. Had they been properly vetted by proper hiring and training procedures, this incident most likely would not have occurred and Grandpa would still be with us.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HuskyMan (Post 3154115)

Isn't it nice that the rookies are able to gain valuable on the job experience by screwing up? And like my daddy always told me, there are mistakes and then there are mistakes. We aren't talking about failure to put enough gas into the cop car, no, what we are talking about is THE TAKING OF A MAN'S LIFE. The cop's lives go on, and as you say, their journey continues, OTH, GRANDPA IS DEAD.

Remember the Clint Eastwood movie, "Unforgiven"? At one point in the film, Clint's character comments about what it means to take a man's life.

The Schofield Kid:: [after killing a man for the first time] It don't seem real... how he ain't gonna never breathe again, ever... how he's dead. And the other one too. All on account of pulling a trigger.

Will Munny: It's a hell of a thing, killing a man. Take away all he's got and all he's ever gonna have.

I'm sorry if it seems I'm minimizing the death of the gentleman because that is not my intent. It's a lousy and sad story.

But . . . we unfortunately do not have a large supply of philosopher kings applying to be policemen. My remark about training them to be martial artists was actually serious. Experienced martial artists tend to have more poise in tense situations like that.

It's hard for me to fully imagine what it would be like to be in a cop's shoes in such a situation. Cops do get shot and killed by perps. Not sure how it ranks on the 'dangerous jobs' scale but I'm guessing it's up there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HuskyMan (Post 3154132)

Correct. Had they been properly vetted by proper hiring and training procedures, this incident most likely would not have occurred and Grandpa would still be with us.

So we expect that police act flawlessly but we do expect or demand the same from the general, gun-wielding public. If grandpa hadn't taken his handgun out to an incident in which cops were likely to show up looking for a perp, he would still be with us.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmac2012 (Post 3154238)

Grandpa was not in the neighbor's yard, he was standing in his own driveway. He was trying to be helpful, no doubt. However, he ended on the wrong end of a gun, didn't he? When a home alarm trips, it is common knowledge that the police will be summoned.

Grandpa should have realized this and realized that the police didn't need for him to act as "back up". Best to sit in the easy chair with a cup of coffee and watch the action on the local news channel. If you ask me, going outside with gun in hand wasn't a smart decision.

In any event, I feel the police had an obligation to perform a basic preliminary investigation into why Grandpa was out there holding a gun before firing on him.

Something like this:

Police: Sir, is this your home?

Grandpa: Yes.

Police: Please go inside and remain there until we have cleared the area. We are answering a burglar arm and there may be armed intruders in the area. (this is the warning to CLEAR OUT)

Grandpa: (Grandpa is going to respond in one of two ways, either he does what the cops tell him to do and goes back inside his house or he becomes stubborn and refuses. If he refuses, the cops can easily take more aggressive action, tell him to lay the gun down and take ten steps backwards, etc. If he fails to comply, taze him or shoot him in the leg then call an ambulance. Now, if Grandpa pointed a gun directly at them, all bets are off and they would be justified in shooting him dead.

BUT, because the cops were inexperienced, untrained ROOKIES, they took the easy approach and merely pulled the trigger. It takes a lot less effort to pull the trigger than to enter into a verbal exchange with an old man. I might add that the Officer Friendlies of 40 - 50 years ago would most likely have taken the approach I outlined above rather than immediately going to guns. Today's cops are a different breed of animal than your father's police force.

I agree with all of that. If the gun was hanging down at his side, why couldn't they level their gun at him and tell him to drop the weapon, then question him? I can only imagine those guys are asking themselves the same question. You know how in those first-person shooter games you lose points when you shoot your own guys but you do it anyway? Not a great analogy but it's in the ballpark.

I mean, who knows, the cops in question might be complete sleaze but the law of averages is probably against it. There was that cop who shot the wood-carver in Seattle who might have had no remorse had he been in those guy's place, who knows.

^^^

Dress the cops in question in full Klan regalia and kick them out of a Cessna over Compton or the South Bronx. With parachutes and webcams, of course.

I imagine you can find folks from every walk of life doing bad things and post them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth (Post 3154333)

I imagine you can find folks from every walk of life doing bad things and post them.

think I could find any stories about autocrossing grandpas acting badly? :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by Txjake (Post 3154313)

more of the same, different area. at least they didn't shoot him...

Black 14-year-old Carrying a Puppy Tackled and Choked by Police for Giving Them a "Dehumanizing Stare" | Alternet

Like I said in the earlier post, today's cops are not your father's "Officer Friendly here, May I help an old lady cross the street?" cops. It seems like they are pumped up on crank and ready to break someone's skull at the drop of a hat. Then, to top it off, they have the judges in their back pocket. Sad situation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HuskyMan (Post 3154363)

X2.

Depending on the locale, you can be seriously f'ed if you end up in a bad situation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Txjake (Post 3154336)

think I could find any stories about autocrossing grandpas acting badly? :D

I hope not.;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by HuskyMan (Post 3154098)

Instead of tazing Grandpa or allowing him to live by shooting him in the leg, the Cops showed supreme mercy by firing six bullets into his CHEST. That way, Grandpa didn't have to suffer. We can all feel good about that.:cool:

What I said does not take away the responsibly of the Police for their actions.

If I had been in Grandpas place and the Police shot Me in the Leg If I was able to My first reaction would have been to defend Myself and shoot back at them.

But, I used to work in Hospitals for a time and I have no allusions about some of the awful suffering and lingering deaths that People have.

So I guess I am looking at My own preference which would be a quick death doing something I wanted to be doing instead of a Hospital death as I described.