The Smart car has caught my attention. They offer a 3 year lease for their basic model for about $100 per month. This is a gas powered vehicle and the monthly cost for the vehicle plus fuel would be less than I pay for fuel for my MBs. I could live with something like this for use around town.

Smart also offers an electric car, that has a 10 year long replacement warranty for the battery. This would cost about $200 per month on a 3 year lease. But I don’t know how to calculate the fuel cost, or the fuel efficiency. How does one get realistic cost per mile estimate for electric cars?

Next it’s time for the crystal ball. As more people switch to electric, is there a guaranteed increase in electricity coupled to the use of electric vehicles which would defeat any potential savings?

accordingly

...33.7 kilowatt hours of electricity is equivalent to one gallon of gasoline... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miles_per_gallon_gasoline_equivalent

Our local electricity costs about 11 cents per kWh (tax included). So .11 x 33.7 = 3.70 per “gallon” equivalent.

Smart states that their electric gets 122 city and 93 hiway per EPA estimates. This about 3x what their fuel based Smart’s get for efficiency, so I have my doubts about the accuracy, but will go with the lower value for guestimating http://www.smartusa.com/comparevehicles/

I drive up to 300 miles per week for round trips of less than 60 miles.

If their estimates are correct, and more importantly if my math is correct, then the fuel cost of the Smart electric would be as follows, again using their lower fuel consumption number of 93 mpg:

300 miles divided by 93 mpg = 3.22 gallon equivalent units of electricity.

Accordingly, 1 gallon equivalent of electricity is the same as 33.7 kWh. So 3.22 units x 33.7 kWh = 108.51 kWh.

108.51 kWh x cost (11 cents per kWh) = 108.51 x .11 = $11.93

Is this accurate? Less than $12 to drive 300 miles?

The only accurate way to do this is to install a KWH meter either in the car's charger or in the single location where you charge the cad and then measure actual power consumed. Multiply power consumed by your local rates and then convert that in gallons via price per gallon. to get an mpg. Or simply calculate your costs per mile from the power/price numbers and miles driven. Do any of these electric cars include a actual KHW meter in their charging system?

Totally understand that Tesla is the high-end option, but they're moving in an interesting direction:

Tesla Adding Chargers for U.S. Coast-to-Coast Car Range - Bloomberg

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touched by his noodly appendage

I don't think your method is valid because it does not account for differences in the efficiency of the electric vs. gasoline motor at converting their respective energy sources into mechanical work.

Edit: Changed my mind, I think your approach is fine because the MPGe numbers do take into account the efficiency of the electric drivetrain. I come at it a different way below but get pretty much the same result. So yeah, I think you are right, it's $10-$11 bucks to drive 300 miles.

That's the bad news. The good news is the electric appears to be somewhat less expensive to operate than your estimate. The Smart has a 17.6Kwh battery pack, which is good for a 68 mile average range. At $0.11 per Kwh, it costs $1.94 to charge the smart for 68 miles worth of fun (?). At that rate, you are looking at $8.56 to drive 300 miles. Charging is not going to be 100% efficient, so you will have to put in more electricity than you get back, but even with 15-20% losses you are still looking at about 10 bucks to drive 300 miles.

Some time ago I crunched the numbers on the Tesla sedan and came up with similarly impressive results. For what it costs to charge the big 250 mile battery you can purchase enough premium to drive your S550 about 45 miles.

depends.... can you plug it in at work??

we got outlets every so often in our garage at work....
used 'em a few times when I was waiting on new glow plugs....

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On some nights I still believe that a car with the fuel gauge on empty can run about fifty more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. - HST

1983 300SD - 305000
1984 Toyota Landcruiser - 190000
1994 GMC Jimmy - 203000

https://media.giphy.com/media/X3nnss8PAj5aU/giphy.gif

I leased a Nissan Leaf 3 months ago and I can offer my experience. The Leaf is essentially a free car to me. I was spending 280/month on gas. My lease payment is $240, insurance went up by $30/month when I added the Leaf (kept my other cars). My electrical bill went down on average $30 after buying the leaf. SDG&E offers a disount if you have an electric car and the net result was a lower bill. I am able to do about half of my charging at work, yet still take advantage of the discount on my entire electrical bill.

I have not driven my mercedes since getting the leaf (it is runnning very poorly). I have only driven my pickup truck on three short trips to Home Depot since getting the Leaf and am yet to go to a gas station.

On top of that the state of california sent me a $2500 check to thank me for being green.

I love the leaf, very low maintenance costs. The cost to charge varies a lot based on circumstances and is discussed at great length on the electric car forums. Certainly my example of my electric bill going down is unusual. I woud guess most people pay about $15 a month to charge their electric car.

Bottom line for me is that my out of pocket expenses on transportation went down at least $40/month since getting the leaf, plus I have the $2500 from the state as a bonus. My monthly savings will be even greater if I include maintenance costs. No more oil changes etc.. Maintenance scedule on the leaf is to rotate the tires every 7000 miles and check the brakes once a year. The reginerative braking of the motor provides a large percentage of the stopping power, so most drivers report minimal brake wear.

There are many more ICE vehicles getting great MPG, plus you get a real car you can take on a real drive. An electric is a joke except for SHORT commuting ONLY. Recharging will never make it viable, they need to design standardized battery packs that can be swapped in place of charging.

Hydrogen fuel cells will be the future, IMO.

I had an electric 1 seater, the range values are usually double what you actually get, and that is when the batteries are new. The battery warranty you mention sounds too good to be true. I would investigate that.

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MB-less

This is the ideal situation - an electric car that is basically free versus the gas burner...... Esp when you are driving from home, RT to a known destination, ((((WORK,)))) where one earns their livelyhood.

Great testimonial...... .....clapping......

Q: What is your Leaf's range in miles on a charge?

My typical range is about 80 miles. Turn the AC on and that drops to 70. Put the car in eco mode and drive like a grandma and you can get 100, I drive the car pretty hard. It is suprisingly fun to drive, lots of torque.

Thanks for all the feedback.

>Totally understand that Tesla is the high-end option, but they're moving in an interesting direction:

If I ready correctly the Telsa offers free refills at a number of their stations for some time, which is a nice way to reduce cost, and given that it appears that electric is already only about 25% the cost of gas, getting a freebie definitely helps tip the scale a bit toward indulgence. If I didn’t already have 2 nice MB vehicles, this kind of offering could sway me, but savings for daily use is the goal of this purchase.

> depends.... can you plug it in at work??

Not an option. I’m a migrant worker and don’t get that kind of benefit. But if the vehicle can reliably get 60 miles or > on a charge it will not likely be a problem. Plus there are a number of local charging stations. For me the biggest variable would be how much the optional heated seats reduce the vehicle’s range.

> An electric is a joke except for SHORT commuting ONLY.

Not a joke at all but I agree that the distance one can go on a charge defines the use of the vehicle. For me this would be used only for trips around town. It would be nice if the car could go 80 to 100 miles between charges. That would open the door to doing my typical weekend trip.

>Recharging will never make it viable, they need to design standardized battery packs that can be swapped in place of charging.

Standardization is a good idea to help lower cost, but swapping battery packs will never be practical.

> The battery warranty you mention sounds too good to be true

I didn’t make it up: “Purchase, finance, or lease a smart electric drive and we'll rent you the battery, guaranteeing its capacity level and covering your annual battery maintenance costs for 10 years. And if you need a replacement battery during your rental term, it's on us.” http://www.smartusa.com/models/electric-drive/overview.aspx

> …On top of that the state of california sent me a $2500 check to thank me for being green.

I haven’t investigated what, if anything, the State offers, but read that the feds offer up to $7.5K depending on the battery size. This is almost a reason to find something with a bigger battery.

The fed gives you $7500 as long as you buy or have 3 year lease, 2 year lease is a no go for the $7500. I am not aware of a battery size limitation from the fed. The Feds $7500 goes directly to the manufacture and effectively lowers the lease or purchase cost. The $2500 from the state of CA goes into your pocket. My son is constantly turning on the heated seats, minimal difference in range, one or two miles less. The other accessories make no noticable difference. You can also program the Leaf to heat or cool the cabin prior to your morning commute while it is still plugged in and save the battery in that way. Takes less energy to maintain temps than to heat or cool the cabin 20 degrees.

More and more places to charge every day, Nissan lets any Leaf charge at a dealership for free. Never been an issue for me, but it is nice to know i can pull into a Nissan dealership get a quick charge and a cup of coffee if I need to.

My range numbers are conservative. 80 miles is not problem, no worries. My wife demands the AC when she is in the car, running with the ac I can get 70 miles easily driving 75 to 85mph. If you are worried about your range for a trip slow down to 65 and you get several more miles.

The electric car is a great second/primary car. It is necessary to have the ICE pickup truck or sedan for long trips or hauling stuff, but 99% of the time the electric Leaf gets chosen.

Wow, that sounds like a good deal on the Smart car lease. I would have been very interested in that a few years ago when I was in the market for a 2-seater and the Smart was one of my interests. The thing was that they were still very expensive used, and for their size and relatively low fuel economy the price just wasn't justifiable.

I ended up with a first-gen Honda Insight and have not looked back. It won against the Honda S2000, Audi TT, SL500 ('97-'00), and Porsche Boxster. The car is an engineering marvel and I get around 70+mpg visiting my friend who lives about 40 miles away. I also visit my gf who lives about 30 miles away and usually avg 70 mpg. I usually total around 550 miles or more per tank, which at fill up would be around 9.x gals. but the tank is rated at 10.6 gals.

I would be interested in a PHEV Prius as a next car, but for now, the Insight doesn't cost me anything other than insurance and gas, and I usually fill up minimum once a month. Before it was around two months, but having a gf who lives in another county requires a bit more driving

An exciting and advantageous aspect that makes financial sense regards the Chevrolet Volt or Nissan Leaf, is the subsidizing done by the individual car manufacturer - in that to meet CAFE Standards the electric cars are sold or leased well under (by several thousand dollars) their cost to manufacture. Which is a big win for the leasee/consumer. If the turnkey deal of expected time-of-ownership and useage can be reduced to an estimated cost-per-mile, then it's easy to consider the value in an electric or hybrid electric car. As was pointed out earlier in this thread by the owner/leasee of a Nissan Leaf, the financial credits given for owning/leasing one is financially beneficial.