We Americans don't do "Apology Tours" - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Botnst · #16 09-18-2013, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Honus

I find it odd that Dudesky would follow that OP with such a disrespectful reply. Obama's greeting was in keeping with etiquette and with the way our presidents greet foreign dignitaries. Obama seems to think that one way to get respect is to give it. It must he a Kenyan thing.

Presidents have precedence for bowing to monarchs? Gee whiz, I didn't know that. I'm trying to imagine Geo Washington bowing to a monarch. Or any other man. Maybe a woman. That was courtesy of the day. Bowing to a monarch is acknowledging subservience to the state.

Botnst · #17 09-18-2013, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidmash

Not too familiar with military policy but I would not think a high value target like a carrier would be parked dock side in a foreign country providing power, water and food for the indigenous people. Helicopters yes but I call BS on the rest.

Anyone know if this ever happened?

The carrier was indeed dockside. The airwings flew to land bases before this emergency deployment. The carrier had extra helos aboard. I don't think the carrier was on site for long and was eitehr replaced or augmented by an LPH. This is from memory so I'm sure a Google would get it it straight. But WGAS, really?

Botnst · #18 09-18-2013, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dynalow

Dave, AFAIK the Navy doesn't tie carriers to piers in foreign lands. One exception is probably the carrier that is home-ported in Japan. I forget which one is home ported there now, but until a couple of years ago, it was the USS Kitty Hawk.

Routinely, when there is a natural disaster, the United States Navy lends a hand. Think Haiti, Sri Lanka, and Fukishima. Carriers were sent to each. IIRC, the Lincoln went to Sri Lanka and the George Washington was diverted to Japan. They anchor off shore and helo food, water & med supplies to aid native populations. The Naval hospital ships (USNS vessels) also are sent where and as needed.

Lincoln Strike Group Winds Down Active Engagement in Operation Unified Assistance

When disaster occurs in foreign lands, and the phone rings in the White House, the first question a president asks is "Where are the carriers?".
Kudos to Obama for reminding the world leaders at the G20 that its his job as president to answer the calls the others make to him asking for help.

My ship did two emergency assists to nations with natural disasters. We had evaps going 24/7 which offloaded to potable water barges. We also pumped JP-5 for ground vehicles IIRC. Also had some large landing craft (LCM?) and CH-47's used for emergency supplies and emergency evac of desparate and/or injured. They people were so grateful and expressive it was embarrassing. Ships company donated a lot of stuff. It felt wonderful.

P.C. · #19 09-18-2013, 12:43 PM

Look! Now Obama is subservient to the Emperor of Japan! Didn't anyone tell him about Pearl Harbor?

Oops!

to de Gaulle of all people!

Of course, there are worse things than bowing to a foreign leader:

ruchase · #20 09-18-2013, 12:59 PM

/\/\/\/\/\/\

Now why would you do such a thing?

These pictures are only fun when the kenyan is the one bowing.

Botnst · #21 09-18-2013, 01:06 PM

Kissing is equal and acceptable. The Nixon bow was equal to the other guy, that's okay.

Eisenhower would NEVER bow to De Gaulle (given their virulent relationship during WWII and Eisenhower's contempt for DeGaulle), so what appears to be a bow must have another interpretation.

Bowing to the Emperor of Japan is proper for a Japanese subject but not for any American.

Americans are not subjects, they are citizens equal in law and custom. I can't imagine bowing to a president, can you?

ruchase · #22 09-18-2013, 01:37 PM

Respect begets respect.

dynalow · #23 09-18-2013, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

My ship did two emergency assists to nations with natural disasters. We had evaps going 24/7 which offloaded to potable water barges. We also pumped JP-5 for ground vehicles IIRC. Also had some large landing craft (LCM?) and CH-47's used for emergency supplies and emergency evac of desparate and/or injured. They people were so grateful and expressive it was embarrassing. Ships company donated a lot of stuff. It felt wonderful.

I am sure it did B.

Another JFK reminder moment:

"I can imagine a no more rewarding career. And any man who may be asked in this century what he did to make his life worth while, I think can respond with a good deal of pride and satisfaction: "I served in the United States Navy." So I congratulate you all. "

John F. Kennedy, August 8, 1963, US Naval Academy

US Navy "Wave" - YouTube

US Navy a global force for good. - YouTube

Honus · #24 09-18-2013, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

Kissing is equal and acceptable. The Nixon bow was equal to the other guy, that's okay.

Eisenhower would NEVER bow to De Gaulle (given their virulent relationship during WWII and Eisenhower's contempt for DeGaulle), so what appears to be a bow must have another interpretation.

Bowing to the Emperor of Japan is proper for a Japanese subject but not for any American.

Americans are not subjects, they are citizens equal in law and custom. I can't imagine bowing to a president, can you?

Of course not. We have no tradition of bowing to presidents, but we have other traditions of showing respect for people in positions of authority. People rise when a judge enters a courtroom, for example. We don't refer to high-ranking officials by name, we refer to them by title - Madame Secretary, for example. I don't know the etiquette for when the president enters a formal gathering, but I bet people rise for that as well.

I believe that you are off on your history on this one.

JB3 · #25 09-18-2013, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

Kissing is equal and acceptable. The Nixon bow was equal to the other guy, that's okay.

Eisenhower would NEVER bow to De Gaulle (given their virulent relationship during WWII and Eisenhower's contempt for DeGaulle), so what appears to be a bow must have another interpretation.

Bowing to the Emperor of Japan is proper for a Japanese subject but not for any American.

Americans are not subjects, they are citizens equal in law and custom. I can't imagine bowing to a president, can you?

in that 50s pic, im pretty sure De Gaulle was about to hang the medal in his left hand around Eisenhowers neck.

The japan thing, im prepared to give Obama plenty of leeway. His exalted emperorship is travel size, working out the correct polite protocol for bowing to each other Japanese style was probably difficult with the guy being the height of a 9 year old kid, especially with Obama being a beanpole.

what he should start doing is bringing a soapbox for all these diminutive world leaders to stand on when they meet him.

cmac2012 · #26 09-18-2013, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dudesky

[IMG]http://www.gopusa.com/freshink/files/2012/10/obama_bows.jpg/IMG]

I'm glad you quoted the entire OP. I had almost forgotten it so I was able to read it again.

I read Obummer's bow as a sort of an admission: 'I'm the younger man here even if I am the leader of the world's most powerful nation.' I mean why always act like you're the lord of the universe?

elchivito · #27 09-18-2013, 04:35 PM

WELL I DON'T CARE IF BILL COSBY/GEORGE CARLIN DIDN'T WRITE THIS I AGREE WITH IT ANYHOW!!

Botnst · #28 09-18-2013, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ruchase

Respect begets respect.

What has that to do with a clear expression of subservience?

Botnst · #29 09-18-2013, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Honus

Of course not. We have no tradition of bowing to presidents, but we have other traditions of showing respect for people in positions of authority. People rise when a judge enters a courtroom, for example. We don't refer to high-ranking officials by name, we refer to them by title - Madame Secretary, for example. I don't know the etiquette for when the president enters a formal gathering, but I bet people rise for that as well.

I believe that you are off on your history on this one.

Yeah, rising is appropriate for a judge or for the president or a governor or foreign head of state as these individuals personally represent their people (or in the case of a judge, 'justice') and thus, the respect is for whom they represent. I wouldn't rise for a senator or a cabinet appointee or a military officer (unless I was serving) or a religious figure. I would probably rise for Colin Powell or Pope John Paul (especially as he is dead) because I have personal respect for the men even if not in office.

I would never bow to any king or emperor or anybody claiming divine right to a throne or position of authority and power.

Botnst · #30 09-18-2013, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JB3

in that 50s pic, im pretty sure De Gaulle was about to hang the medal in his left hand around Eisenhowers neck.

The japan thing, im prepared to give Obama plenty of leeway. His exalted emperorship is travel size, working out the correct polite protocol for bowing to each other Japanese style was probably difficult with the guy being the height of a 9 year old kid, especially with Obama being a beanpole.

what he should start doing is bringing a soapbox for all these diminutive world leaders to stand on when they meet him.

The protocol is to bow equally to equals and lower to a superior, IIRC. The emperor offered a smile. The prez should have begun a slow bow and stopped when the emperor didn't meet his bow. What would MacArthur have done?

There are some funny videos of people unsure of their stations bobbing up and down trying to figure-out who is superior to whom. It's kind of low importance for our culture but is loaded with meaning to folks who put store in protocol and status.