Income gap more complicated than we might suppose - Page 5 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Hatterasguy · #61 12-10-2013, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

We can study right here and now. We've spent roughly a brazilian dollars of debt since the 1960's and are currently running the spending engine flat-out but we can't get the tire out of the mud.

History is always equivocal when it comes to the economy. I'll bet a yankee dime I can find articles by Nobel Laureates who think gov spending to get out of debt is a bad idea. I can also find them that think just the opposite. On any given subject within economics I can find reputable experts who disagree.

I'm with you on not studying economic theory. It's not from laziness or lack of interest. It's from lack of respect for the art form.

I agree you can find an "expert" that has written a paper on just about every viewpoint.

I can only comment on my micro world and I have to build and sacrifice the profits from a house every year to the IRS. If I didn't have to do that I could build 1-2 more houses a year and create more jobs. I wonder if the money I send to the IRS creates an equal number of jobs?

I suspect it doesn't but who knows.

t walgamuth · #62 12-10-2013, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hatterasguy

I agree you can find an "expert" that has written a paper on just about every viewpoint.

I can only comment on my micro world and I have to build and sacrifice the profits from a house every year to the IRS. If I didn't have to do that I could build 1-2 more houses a year and create more jobs. I wonder if the money I send to the IRS creates an equal number of jobs?

I suspect it doesn't but who knows.

It sounds like you need to expense more of your spending....or make more profit.

jcyuhn · #63 12-10-2013, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Air&Road

Jim asked you first.

Larry! I was winning! I was just about to double dog dare him!

spdrun · #64 12-10-2013, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hatterasguy

I agree you can find an "expert" that has written a paper on just about every viewpoint.

I can only comment on my micro world and I have to build and sacrifice the profits from a house every year to the IRS. If I didn't have to do that I could build 1-2 more houses a year and create more jobs. I wonder if the money I send to the IRS creates an equal number of jobs?

I suspect it doesn't but who knows.

Not like there's a housing shortage. Besides, taxes are likely baked into the price of your product, same as any other expense.

Honus · #65 12-10-2013, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hatterasguy

I agree you can find an "expert" that has written a paper on just about every viewpoint....

That argument only goes so far. Some economic arguments are so preposterous that they must be rejected. Paul Ryan's so-called budget is an example. Rejecting Ryan doesn't mean that one has to accept Krugman, but it seems as if there should be some standards.

Quote:

I can only comment on my micro world and I have to build and sacrifice the profits from a house every year to the IRS. If I didn't have to do that I could build 1-2 more houses a year and create more jobs. I wonder if the money I send to the IRS creates an equal number of jobs? ....

Let's assume for argument's sake that you make $150,000 a year in taxable income and that your overall federal, state, and local tax rate is around 30%. That would mean a take home pay of $105,000. Now, assume that Congress raises taxes so that your overall federal tax rate is 32%. Your take home pay just went down to $102,000. I don't think that $3,000 difference is going to result in 1-2 more house per year.

I imagine that is a BS calculation that I just did, but isn't my basic point correct that modest increases in rates, especially at the top, probably don't not prevent people from doing business?

Honus · #66 12-10-2013, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcyuhn

Larry! I was winning! I was just about to double dog dare him!

I dodged a bullet there. There is no defense to the double dog dare.

jcyuhn · #67 12-10-2013, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Honus

That chart shows the tax rate for each quintile. My pea brain can't go from marginal rates to overall rates that way. This analysis also doesn't account for all of the economic gains rich people have that are not included in "income" for tax purposes.

Don't understand why you are so concerned about marginal tax rates, they are but one part of a complicated system which results in a number that is the overall proportion of one's income taken by the government.

Could you make an attempt to qualify these untaxed, un-income gains to which you are referring?

Hatterasguy · #68 12-10-2013, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spdrun

Not like there's a housing shortage. Besides, taxes are likely baked into the price of your product, same as any other expense.

Real estate is local, I could sell more if I could build more and unlike other industries the markets dictate my pricing so I cannot just increase my prices as costs go up.

Hatterasguy · #69 12-10-2013, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Honus

That argument only goes so far. Some economic arguments are so preposterous that they must be rejected. Paul Ryan's so-called budget is an example. Rejecting Ryan doesn't mean that one has to accept Krugman, but it seems as if there should be some standards.Let's assume for argument's sake that you make $150,000 a year in taxable income and that your overall federal, state, and local tax rate is around 30%. That would mean a take home pay of $105,000. Now, assume that Congress raises taxes so that your overall federal tax rate is 32%. Your take home pay just went down to $102,000. I don't think that $3,000 difference is going to result in 1-2 more house per year.

I imagine that is a BS calculation that I just did, but isn't my basic point correct that modest increases in rates, especially at the top, probably don't not prevent people from doing business?

My point, is that I could do a lot of investing with that $50k and I suspect but I cannot prove I can create more jobs with it than uncle sam does.

spdrun · #70 12-10-2013, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hatterasguy

Real estate is local, I could sell more if I could build more and unlike other industries the markets dictate my pricing so I cannot just increase my prices as costs go up.

Yes, but the price that the market dictates for new homes has taxes built in.

Honus · #71 12-10-2013, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcyuhn

Don't understand why you are so concerned about marginal tax rates, they are but one part of a complicated system which results in a number that is the overall proportion of one's income taken by the government.

That's what I said.

We were talking about marginal rates. Then you switched to overall rates. I was just saying that I am not prepared to be able to relate one to the other.

Quote:

Could you make an attempt to qualify these untaxed, un-income gains to which you are referring?

To qualify them? Did you mean to ask whether I can quantify them? If that's your question, then, no, I am not prepared to quantify them. (Are you?)

My point is that the system is skewed in favor of the wealthy, IMHO. That skewing results from many things. A modest increase in top marginal rates is one thing we could do to make things less unfair, IMHO. Beyond that, I don't have much to offer here.

Honus · #72 12-10-2013, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hatterasguy

My point, is that I could do a lot of investing with that $50k and I suspect but I cannot prove I can create more jobs with it than uncle sam does.

You just took away all of Uncle Sam's money. What are you going to use for roads, banks, or any of the other things Uncle Sam either provides or makes possible?

SwampYankee · #73 12-10-2013, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Honus

I dodged a bullet there. There is no defense to the double dog dare.

At least there wasn't a slight breach of etiquette by skipping the triple dare and going right for the throat (the triple dog dare)!

jcyuhn · #74 12-10-2013, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SwampYankee

At least there wasn't a slight breach of etiquette by skipping the triple dare and going right for the throat (the triple dog dare)!

At least somebody around here understands me!

t walgamuth · #75 12-10-2013, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Honus

You just took away all of Uncle Sam's money. What are you going to use for roads, banks, or any of the other things Uncle Sam either provides or makes possible?

banks?