Will to Pleasure/Will to Power - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

kerry · #1 02-17-2014, 11:10 AM

Hattie asked in the Kansas anti-gay law thread why fundamentalists impose their wills on others. I'm toying with an hypothesis, partly related to Nietzsche's analysis of the Will to Power and his contempt for the Will to Pleasure/Hedonism.

Is it true that if an individual or a group supresses the will to pleasure, the will to power takes its place or at least is enhanced by the suppression of pleasure? Hedonists in general seem completely uninterested in imposing their wills on others, at least partly because they are spending their time pleasuring themselves. Fundamentalists of all stripes put severe restrictions on pleasure seeking, unleashing the will from the service of pleasure and frequently harnessing it to the quest for power. This would account for some of the great successes of religion. Could capitalism have become the worldwide success it is without its connection to protestantism? Would catholic christianity have yielded its massive medieval power without the celibacy of it's ruling elite?

martureo · #2 02-17-2014, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerry

Hattie asked in the Kansas anti-gay law thread why fundamentalists impose their wills on others. I'm toying with an hypothesis, partly related to Nietzsche's analysis of the Will to Power and his contempt for the Will to Pleasure/Hedonism.

Is it true that if an individual or a group supresses the will to pleasure, the will to power takes its place or at least is enhanced by the suppression of pleasure? Hedonists in general seem completely uninterested in imposing their wills on others, at least partly because they are spending their time pleasuring themselves. Fundamentalists of all stripes put severe restrictions on pleasure seeking, unleashing the will from the service of pleasure and frequently harnessing it to the quest for power. This would account for some of the great successes of religion. Could capitalism have become the worldwide success it is without its connection to protestantism? Would catholic christianity have yielded its massive medieval power without the celibacy of it's ruling elite?

Surely you mean the supposed or even required celibacy of the ruling elite?

Hatterasguy · #3 02-17-2014, 09:49 PM

I think it frees people up from doing what they would prefer to do and makes them miserable at the same time. So they seek an escape for their frustration, ie they become very religious and want to force others to be like themselves.

They also see it as a threat, a perfect example of this is North Korea. They are terrified that to many of their people will learn how bad they have it so they suppress information brutally.

On a micro scale if I'm stuck at church on a Sunday instead of on my boat I'm going to be miserable, so all those happy people partying down the dock I'm going to want to rain on their parade, ie go to church or else.

Botnst · #4 02-17-2014, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerry

Hattie asked in the Kansas anti-gay law thread why fundamentalists impose their wills on others. I'm toying with an hypothesis, partly related to Nietzsche's analysis of the Will to Power and his contempt for the Will to Pleasure/Hedonism.

Is it true that if an individual or a group supresses the will to pleasure, the will to power takes its place or at least is enhanced by the suppression of pleasure? Hedonists in general seem completely uninterested in imposing their wills on others, at least partly because they are spending their time pleasuring themselves. Fundamentalists of all stripes put severe restrictions on pleasure seeking, unleashing the will from the service of pleasure and frequently harnessing it to the quest for power. This would account for some of the great successes of religion. Could capitalism have become the worldwide success it is without its connection to protestantism? Would catholic christianity have yielded its massive medieval power without the celibacy of it's ruling elite?

That's a really interesting proposition.

I wish you had focused on one proposition at a time as I suspect that each of them will have different outcomes. It will likely confuse the issues as each of us chases our favorite rabbit(s).

kerry · #5 02-17-2014, 10:19 PM

Which multiple propositions?

kerry · #6 02-17-2014, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hatterasguy

I think it frees people up from doing what they would prefer to do and makes them miserable at the same time. So they seek an escape for their frustration, ie they become very religious and want to force others to be like themselves.

They also see it as a threat, a perfect example of this is North Korea. They are terrified that to many of their people will learn how bad they have it so they suppress information brutally.

On a micro scale if I'm stuck at church on a Sunday instead of on my boat I'm going to be miserable, so all those happy people partying down the dock I'm going to want to rain on their parade, ie go to church or else.

I'm not sure it's totally a negative thing like that. Frustrating pleasure might turn the will to power in positive ways. It might turn a person into a great sailing explorer for instance. Shackleton might be an example.
Of course it also can have that negative effect.

Hatterasguy · #7 02-18-2014, 07:10 PM

Well I guess the negatives stand out more, good point though.

But Shackleton wasn't trying to impose his will on anyone.