1950s-mid 1960s Where The Old Days Really Better?
 

Multiple times in the Forum I have said that that the Old days when I was growing up were better and have further stated that People these days don’t know that because the did not grow up then.
I am being told by others that it is just My perception that is wrong that I am selectively focusing on only the good things.
For Me the Old days is about the 1950s into the Mid 1960s. In the Mid 1960s things started to change. To me this corresponded with Social agitation and Drug use; but, the causes are not what this thread is about.
In the Pics are various crime statistic charts and it shows a clear rise in various crimes since the mid 1960s.
Speaking of perception if you were a young Person during the 1980s your perception would be that the Crime Rate is lower now then at that time and that would be true. However, the crime rate is still not as low as it was in the Early 1960s.
I don’t know if there are any charts on Ethical Behavior covering that time but I also believe that the Adults in My early years where more honest and decent People then the later Adults.
The last chart is on Prison Spending. It reflects only a small part of the Cost that Crimes cost Society. The Cost to investigate and prosecute Crime is not there nor is the Cost to Crime Victims and Insurance Companies.
I hope I got them all in the right order but I think the Charts speak for themselves.
Crime Chart 1
http://www.volokh.com/2013/01/10/public-opinion-on-the-death-penalty-and-violent-crime-rates/
Crime Chart 2
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/warrenthrockmorton/2013/06/25/dear-david-barton-violent-crime-is-not-increasing/
Crime Chart 3
https://blogs.lclark.edu/hart-landsberg/2009/12/05/the-prison-industrial-complex/
　
Crime chart 4
http://prince.org/msg/105/360424
Chart 5
http://catholicexchange.com/does-porn-prevent-rape
Prison spending
https://blogs.lclark.edu/hart-landsberg/2009/12/05/the-prison-industrial-complex/

Prison spending.

Nostalgia effect . . .

What is nostalgic about a Chart/s?

Nostalgia isn't about the charts, my comment was about how the psychological effect of nostalgia selectively filters and alters reality. Were the 50's and 60's "better" or the 'golden age?" Probably not, but the influences of shared experiences via a more efficient mass media, might convince some otherwise.

After WW2 we were about the only industrial powerhouse still functioning well. Russia had experienced a surge of manufacturing ability owing to the necessity of building tanks, etc. to defeat the Germans, but they had also lost approx. 20 million citizens and several cities had been beat up pretty badly.

Our losses were not trivial - about 300K servicemen IIRC, but we suffered virtually no damage to our actual territory, apart from Hawaii. The world was ours for the taking, in a free enterprise business sort of way.

That kind of prosperity can smooth over a lot of rough spots. But I dunno, the 50s and the 60s also had some pigheadedness going on in cultural matters. The good ol' days always seem better. Usually always anyway.

News flash: the better parts were better. The worse parts were worse.

ahh , yea - lets just all regress:rolleyes:

The Charts are not about Psycological effects or My preception.

The Charts are bout Crime and the use of the Charts to support My believe that there was less crime because in General the People had better Charcter back then then now.
Meaning the the Society I grew up in was a safer place and that that safe enviornment made society in general better.

I could say the People I grew up with also had better Moral Values but that has become too individualist and subjective because the majority of the Populations Moral Values are extremely divers compared to when I was a Kid.

My perception is the same. I can't say what was the reality. For poor blacks, it was probably worse, but their families were still intact. OTOH, they were more subject to random searches, and police brutality. For middle class, suburban whites, it was a pretty good time to grow up.

Not really, In the thirties the everyday people in small towns across the country rooted for the likes of John dillinger, and Pretty boy.

I don't care what the charts show. I can easily remember my old neighborhood and it was crime central. People getting shot was a rather normal thing.

And kids dying from a lack of medical care was also common. I can remember going door to door asking for donations so we could buy a coffin for a friend of mine. I was about ten years old.

Yeah.... Good times. Fort Worth has changed a lot since then and all for the better.

And in Oklahoma Pretty Boy Floyd is still revered in some parts. They thought he hung the moon and some old timers still tell of how much their parents loved the guy and had no problem hiding him out.

The topic was 50s/60s; not 30s, or did I miss something?

The OP was correct in that all our economic competitors had been bombed into submission. The USA was in a great economic position. Times were good. Interesting that the supposedly "colonialist" USA did not take much advantage of the rest of the world at that time, but actually rebuilt our former enemies with better industrial technology than we had, ourselves. And then they ate out lunch with better efficiency that we had. I would have hated to see what would have resulted from an Axis victory. Probably nothing like the Marshall plan.
Were they perfect? Not at all, and no time in human history has been perfect.

Economically, great times. Lots of crime not reported though (the classic skew), and lots of cultural movements that were suppressed that nowadays people accept for better or for worse. Case in point: peak of KKK enrollment.

Also, many many neighborhoods have gone way downhill since. Just look at Hartford, CT or Chester, PA, two of many examples.

Crime rates (by the charts) are at mid to late 1960s levels again. Secondly, do the charts account for differences in reporting from then to now?

Also, it depends who you were. I bet that it was no fun growing up as a Black in certain parts of the US in that period, where you could be disappeared if you tried to vote, or said the wrong thing to a White lady.

I had always been only speaking of My own time period. Otherwise you would can go back to Plymoth Rock and trying to analyze all the periods inbetween.

For My Father and even His Girl Friend the Good Old days were ones of Poverty and suffering.

And, in some respects My Father was more fortunate then many becaue My Grandfater had a steady job. However there was 6 Kids in the Family and a lot of Family caused problems that I will not go into.

His Girl Friend was raised on a Farm wich was tough enough and got extremely tough when Her Father Died. There was also a bunch of Siblings in that Family also.

But, that was a hard time for most of the Nation.

Diesel911: "1950s-mid 1960s Where The Old Days Really Better?"
 

Yes. Absolutely, they were.

I lived through them and observed them firsthand.

So the crime charts are irrelevant and you really believe there is less crime now then in the 1950s and 1960s???

What part of the Crime Charts has to do with who you were? When I say that the General Society was safer that is exactly what I mean. In general is sort of like saying an average. That means not extreme examples.

I don't think Crime was under reported in the Past because there was less of it to report. That would make the figures easier to deal with.
The same with the Prison expense chart. Although part of that could be due to inflation.

But, as an aside despite the unfair treatment I am just betting the Crime rate was lower even in Black Neighborhoods back then now.

In a previous thread I also posted some Crime Charts and what I found out in the Crime chars was that in the 1980s the High Murder rate was High because Blacks were killing other Blacks. And, that is a time period way after the type persecution the Police did in the 1950s and early 1960s.

So the New World brought relief from persecution just because someone was Black but they are not as safe as the were in the past.

"According to the US Department of Justice, blacks accounted for 52.5% of homicide offenders from 1980 to 2008, with whites 45.3% and Native Americans and Asians 2.2%. The offending rate for blacks was almost 8 times higher than whites, and the victim rate 6 times higher. Most murders were intraracial, with 84% of white homicide victims murdered by whites, and 93% of black victims murdered by blacks."
Note that also ingeneral that Hespanic or Latainos are considered Causasian. I am guessing they are lumped into the White Murder Rate.

This was the first 3 Paragraphs of the Thread: "Multiple times in the Forum I have said that that the Old days when I was growing up were better and have further stated that People these days don’t know that because the did not grow up then.

I am being told by others that it is just My perception that is wrong that I am selectively focusing on only the good things.

For Me the Old days is about the 1950s into the Mid 1960s. In the Mid 1960s things started to change. To me this corresponded with Social agitation and Drug use; but, the causes are not what this thread is about."

It is not My contention the every time period in our past was better than now. As an example look at the Civl War peroid.

I don't remember.
It's probably a good thing.

For those who believe that the government should solve our problems and we should have no responsibility for our own lives, I'm sure that today fulfills their wishes and desires much better than the fifties and sixties when we took care of ourselves and each other with minimal government involvement.

in this link from your OP, there is another chart, which I think pertains to the above bolded red comments-

Does Porn Prevent Rape?

This data is from the survey to try and find unreported crime. Now it only goes back to the 70s, not the period you are referencing, but it tells quite a different story-

excerpt-


pertaining to your above comments about what part do the crime charts have to do with who you were, if you were a woman before the women's liberation movement, the second chart from the same source article shows a lot more crime probably happened that was not reported.

Basically the short answer is you probably didn't report a rape, because men would be judging other men, and your concerns would be minimized.

I agree, the 50s-60s were a great time if you were a white middle class male, but thats just a small piece of the general population.

In 1955, if a white gang beat you bloody and you were black, you think the white police would care? In 1955 if you were a young woman in a predominately male college and were brutally raped, how many examples have we seen where the victim is herself blamed for the temptation they bring to BE raped by an incredibly male biased administration? Just look at the India examples right now. How many women just didn't report these incidents and tried to forget it? The call survey indicates that at least in the 70s, quite a few did just that.

These surveys indicate quite a bit more was going on under the surface than reported, and this is exactly why the civil rights movement and womens lib movement happened. Your reliance on official reported crime only to indicate everything was sunshine and roses at the time is I think a flawed approach.

The good old days:

~Thalidomide babies

~The Cuban Missile Crisis

~John F. Kennedy getting his head shot off.

~Kitty Genovese murdered in NYC, while virtually surrounded by apathetic neighbors

~Murder of civil rights workers in Mississippi in 1964

~The escalation of U.S. involvement in the war in Vietnam

~Watts race riots

~Bobby Kennedy getting his head shot off

~The Manson Family Murders

Because everything was just peachy back then.

Yep, the smaller government of the day certainly did make it "peachy."

Government intrusion then was just as bad as it is now. The people I knew just ignored it.

Things have changed in the oil industry and all for the better. I can remember when pipeline right-of-ways doubled as toxic waste dumps and this was totally legal. Then the government stepped in and the industry started its' long wailing of 'too much government intrusion'.

Visit the Elk Hills oil fields in California for a taste of the good old days when there was less government intrusion. Then visit the oil fields in the Midland, Texas area to see what a government regulated oil field looks like. The difference is night and day. A lot of what the EPA started doing they learned from the Texas Railroad Commission when it came to running an oil field.

I can remember how dangerous the oil field was in the days before OSHA. I hope we never go back to those days when life was cheap and safety was something you only did at school crosswalks.

Ah yes the good old days of polio, DDT and segregation. Don't we all wish we could go back to those days?
http://www.1800politics.com/wp-conte...in-400x300.jpg

Unless you were targeted by Joseph McCarthy. Im sure people dragged in by the thought police had plenty to say about their "smaller" governments lack of intrusion into thier personal affairs.

Glad you had a better time than others.

Not an example of "smaller", less intrusive government.

Sorry Pooka, but you are taking one specific area and implying that the government was equally intrusive in all other areas.:)

In the fifties and at least most of the sixties, there were fewer government agencies and fewer intrusive laws toward the general public. There were also MANY FEWER frivolous lawsuits, which in many cases have led to more government regulation and control.

YES INDEED! Segregation was one of the dark aspects of the era.

no shlt.

Yer all wrong, it was 1971 :)

Carly Simon - Anticipation - 1971 - YouTube

There are plenty of areas in which I enjoy the benefits of today:
The medical field in general, but dentistry --absolutely!
helpful drugs--i/e NOT thalidomide


I am still on the fence about the overall "benefits" of instant communication.

Overall, the PC has been very welcomed. I remember when the first "pocket" calculator ( Bomar Brain) became easily accessible-- $179 for 4 functions, no memory, and red LED display, but we couldn't keep them on the shelves)--The innovation was so startling that at the engineering office where I worked, they could be used either for the initial calculation, or for checking calculation, but not for both.

I think everyone who has commented on the general superiority of the 50s/60s has admitted that race issues were not done well. No need to keep beating that horse.

But I know I could walk through even the black sections of downtown Baltimore at night, and be safe. I would not attempt that feat today.

I remember seeing one of those signs, somewhere on Maryland's Eastern Shore, on the way to Ocean City. It was probably about 1962, or 63, and I was absolutely shocked. I had heard of segregation, but never before seen it in practice. I went to school with some black kids--they mostly stayed by themselves, but no one, in my experience, ever said, or did anything toward them.
I also made friends with some Jewish kids--again, no problems of which I was aware.

My problems came mostly from stuck-up middle calls and upper white kids who thought they were better than me.

Just about to cue up "We Didn't Start the Fire" . . . but it just played on Sirius Billy Joel Channel . . .

http://youtu.be/eFTLKWw542g

sounds like it coulda been dangerous then, as now, with all the drugs coming into Baltimore in the 50s-60s.

History of Baltimore - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This thread could only be started by an older white man, and your response could only be posted by an older white man.

The argument being made by diesel911 is that the era in general was better nationwide for the general population. However, he and other older white men responding affirmatively are applying only one single viewpoint to the question, was the era better for everyone? Or was the era better for white males specifically? Well white males polled say yes. Just how singular is that perspective? Very narrow.

Additionally, i think public recorded history answers that question quite clearly, race issues were a major part of the inequality and descrimination of the time period. For you to say the race issue has been handled, simply shows how little race issues of the era impacted you personally. After all, you were just the right color, and just the right sex for everything to work if you wanted it, and doors to remain open that you could walk through.

You're 40+ years older now and obvious mugger-bait; of course you would not attempt that feat today!

All I know is that I did it, walking along the North Avenue corridor. I missed my bus, and walked much of the way.

Sorry, the only experiences I can post are those I encountered. I could make up a politically correct "memory", but that would be a lie. I can't apologize for living when I did.
I posted of my shock to see a "White's only" water fountain, but I never experienced any race issues first hand....until I saw the smoke rising from Baltimore after MLK's assassination--all the while the Mayor was proclaiming that everything was under control.

Remember that America of that time was mostly of a European descent, a more or less homogeneous culture. If blacks amounted to 10% of the overall population, they were mostly concentrated in the inner cites. Some communities probably had no black population at all, some States, too. It was not difficult for large portions of the population to never see a black person; it wasn't an issue. Of course, things changed radically in the 60s. I was a supported of MLK--at least compared to those who clamored to burn down the cities. MLK was a voice of calm, even if he wasn't exactly as he was portrayed, but then again, neither was J. Edgar Hoover, was he.

You guys … come on!

The good old days were never all that good and the present days are not all that bad. It's all a matter of perspective.

Some things were, without any doubt, better in the good old days. Most things were not as good else we would not have changed.

Most things are better today than yesterday, but not all things, else we would not seek to change today into a better tomorrow.

Each of us can point to this or that item which we believe is better or worse (then and now) and we will have disagreement on those items.

It could almost have gone without saying. But apparently not.

The voice of sanity has spoken......thanks, Bot

Was it a leisurely stroll, filled with meditation and musing?

Wow, I think that is the most words I've ever seen Bot write.

From an economic perspective, there were recessions in 1945, 1948-49, 1953-54, 1958-59, and 1960-61. Put me in the group that finds the old days perhaps not so good as some recall.

I lost control.

wait, what . . . you mean it wasn't as good for guys like Don Draper back then?

Ir you were a woman who wanted ready access to contraception or an abortion, things weren't so rosy back then.