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-   -   Hate groups (http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=353476)

INSIDIOUS 04-14-2014 08:28 PM
This hate individual seems to have failed at least 2/3rds if his mission was to kill jews

Quote:
Although Corporan and his grandson apparently were not Jewish, the shooter could be charged with a hate crime if he targeted him because he thought they were.
Not sure about the woman yet.

INSIDIOUS 04-15-2014 11:41 AM
Turns out she was also a christian.

Txjake 04-15-2014 12:37 PM
boy, I bet he is pissed....

aklim 04-15-2014 12:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidmash (Post 3316044)
I am very reluctant to place limits on any types of speech. I am not sure I am comfortable with the incitement concept because I think it helps people limit their responsibility at least in their own mind. I do not know that I care who told you to do anything. You chose to do it, own it. If I take advantage of someone who is mentally challenged or something then I get it.

I am also not sure why a hate crime determination should have any bearing on a murder. Dead is dead. There are situations where a determination of hate is warranted in my opinion, but this sure as heck is not one of them. My life is not worth any more or less than anyone else just due to my religion, gender or race, at least not where murder is concerned. \

As mentioned above, he can say what he wants, acting on it is a whole different matter.
I'm not comfortable with it either. To me it is an attempt at punishing twice avoiding the double jeopardy?

BobK 04-15-2014 01:29 PM
I totally reject the idea of "Hate Crime". If you murder someone, you have committed murder, period. As said above, the victim is just as dead if you did it because of a bias against someone's religion, race, gender preference, hair color, occupation, sports team preference or what ever. The crime is in the action, not in the politically incorrect bias. If we say otherwise, we are making it a crime to THINK something. I do not like it when someone says something against another person because of a particular bias, But they have committed no crime. The freedoms to think and speak are cornerstone to our country.

Maki 04-15-2014 01:55 PM
Most people link hate crime enhancers to major crimes of violence for some reason. But the enhancers can be a wake-up call for someone who, say, commits a simple battery on a person because of who they are. Suddenly a couple of punches become a felony.

Some years back some young punks up in central Wisconsin went out on a mission to "harass the Amish" (quoted in the criminal complaint) and trashed a family's property. They were charged with felony hate crime enhancers that turned a prank into potential prison time.

In such cases I think hate-crime enhancers are appropriate and very likely limit the harassment that certain people may otherwise face.

t walgamuth 04-15-2014 02:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maki (Post 3316597)
Most people link hate crime enhancers to major crimes of violence for some reason. But the enhancers can be a wake-up call for someone who, say, commits a simple battery on a person because of who they are. Suddenly a couple of punches become a felony.

Some years back some young punks up in central Wisconsin went out on a mission to "harass the Amish" (quoted in the criminal complaint) and trashed a family's property. They were charged with felony hate crime enhancers that turned a prank into potential prison time.

In such cases I think hate-crime enhancers are appropriate and very likely limit the harassment that certain people may otherwise face.
That doesn't sound like a prank to me.

Maki 04-15-2014 02:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by t walgamuth (Post 3316618)
That doesn't sound like a prank to me.
They didn't burn a house down or anything -- it was more like smashing some mailboxes, turning the livestock loose, stuff like that. But one of the perps told investigators they were out to harass.

BobK 04-15-2014 03:12 PM
Harassment and vandalism are usually crimes in most areas. i fyou feel the penalties are not stiff enough on their own, talk to the judge or politicians. I reject the idea that farmer Amish is more equal than farmer Bob and crimes against him are more important than crimes against me.

cmbdiesel 04-15-2014 03:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Botnst (Post 3315990)
We need to outlaw hate.
I hate hate groups.

aklim 04-15-2014 03:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobK (Post 3316646)
Harassment and vandalism are usually crimes in most areas. i fyou feel the penalties are not stiff enough on their own, talk to the judge or politicians. I reject the idea that farmer Amish is more equal than farmer Bob and crimes against him are more important than crimes against me.
But I'd say it is more PC to double punish for discrimination issues.

BobK 04-15-2014 03:33 PM
interesting thought: Are "enhancers" really just double jeopardy and you get to be convicted twice?

cmbdiesel 04-15-2014 03:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobK (Post 3316656)
interesting thought: Are "enhancers" really just double jeopardy and you get to be convicted twice?
My interpretation is that they are indicative of a particularly heinous variant of the crime in question.
Doesn't make the victims more important, just more likely to be targeted.

aklim 04-15-2014 03:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobK (Post 3316656)
interesting thought: Are "enhancers" really just double jeopardy and you get to be convicted twice?
Convicted once, punished once but gives the opinion of tacking more punishment WITHOUT violation of "double jeopardy" laws

davidmash 04-15-2014 03:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maki (Post 3316597)
Most people link hate crime enhancers to major crimes of violence for some reason. But the enhancers can be a wake-up call for someone who, say, commits a simple battery on a person because of who they are. Suddenly a couple of punches become a felony.

Some years back some young punks up in central Wisconsin went out on a mission to "harass the Amish" (quoted in the criminal complaint) and trashed a family's property. They were charged with felony hate crime enhancers that turned a prank into potential prison time.

In such cases I think hate-crime enhancers are appropriate and very likely limit the harassment that certain people may otherwise face.
I agree. I think hate crime enhancers are appropriate on lesser crimes. For instance. The actions of tagging a house with a smiley face is different than tagging a jewish persons house with a Swastika. The intent is obviously different and in my opinion so should the punishment.

I think the more violent a crime becomes the blurrier the line becomes. If a group beats up on a black man because he is black as opposed to a group who beats up a black man because he was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. I am not sure I see the justice in punishing one of those greater than the other.


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