Worst car to work on
 

What to you has been the worst car to work on?

I feel like the 190E 2.6 is a PITA but my mom's 1996 Grand Marquis is far worse. Tried replacing a valve cover gasket today and once again ran into Ford's brilliant engineering, aka somehow making a 4.6L small block V8 engine hard to work on in a massive engine bay. The front of the engine is super easy to work on, unlike the 190E 2.6 but the sides and back are terrible. The catalytic converters also aren't the most fun things in the world. Problem is, most of the problems we've had the with car have been located on sides or rear of the engine bay (like the $230 blower motor resistor that we've had to replace 3 times).

We were finally able to get the valve cover out (took 30 minutes to get the back bolt out) cleaned it up, tried to clean up as much of the mating surface, put RTV where needed, then reinstalled it (also a PITFA) and it leaked like a sieve at the back bolt that is nearly impossible to get to and completely impossible to use a torque wrench on. Might be that you are supposed to pull the engine in order to do it properly.

1985 Buick.... something or another that my middle son bought from his grandfather. Transverse mounted V6 with absolutely incomprehensible levels of parts bin engineering - brackets with 47 arms and 12 bends and 83 holes to cover 3,639 applications.... used to mount a wiring harness clip, but which had to be removed to get the other 12 overlapping parts off so that you could get at That One Damn Bolt to remove the broken whatever part it was.

Close runner up would be the 72 AMC Matador that The Same Automotive Genius from the rant above (son's grandfather/ex-wife's father) bought for my ex-wife (then girlfriend).

The entire front clip had to be removed to replace a wobbly crankshaft pulley.

Volkswagens - any of the POSes!

Maserati.

I'll elaborate more later, but to pull the radiator, you've got to disassemble the front of the car.

N*

I don't like to work on Fords or Chebbies.

Name a volkswagen you have personally worked on

Honorable mentions for me is ford pickups with the triton V10, the VW taureg(sp?) with the tdi, and bringing up the rear is the diesel liberty.

All these vehicles have advantages, but i have the most trouble working on engineering compromise vehicles with large or unusual motors crammed in and the tradeoffs made to do that making for difficult repair procedures

Way at the top of the list is a military spec H1. Hardest vehicle i have ever tried to work on. Every single repair is a huge complex procedure.

Worst one I've worked on is this 2004 explorer. However a lot of that is due to neglected maintenance over the years and not necessarily the model or engineering. Currently sitting next to its engine, STILL trying to get the harmonic balancer off. Blowtorch and puller #2 today.


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The 5.4 is even harder to get to all of that and I had no issue. Removed with air ratchet, started by hand with a deep socket on a short extension and finished with a 1/4" torque wrench.

They all suck. Every model has something different that is a total pain in the ass to do. The ford 5.4 is a royal pita to get the power steering pump off. The valve covers are a pain, but doable. It helps having all of the different combinations of swivel head ratchets, short sockets, deep sockets, all different extensions, short wrenches, long wrenches, ratcheting wrenches.


To my surprise, the easiest car I have worked on lately has been an 08 bmw 325i iirc. Spark plugs were a 45 ordeal and a pleasure to do.

Pontiac Fiero with the V6. Most of them (that are still around) probably have the original plugs on the firewall side. You just about need to remove the engine to work on it at all.

Sounds like a challenge :D

Ide bet the van with the v10 is even more fun, perhaps not, the extra cyls might be at the back--more acessable under that cover.

I gotta say the chevy gmc vans are SCREWED to work on, I think ill rip that whole damn cab off...... and junk the last yr vortec v8 in favor of some lsx/computer combo.

Ask Brian Carlton :D.

Problem with the 4.6 in the 96 grand marquis is that the valve cover sits about 3/4 of an inch from the airbox that feeds into the cabin. I was finally able to get a short 8mm wrench in there to do it but it took forever because there wasn't much swing and the bolts are very long.

You beat me to it. Great when they work right. PITA when they don't, which is a lot of the time. I don't know how ISIS keeps theirs going.

Honorable mention to Porsche 914 and anything else mid-engine.

The Merak and the SM are not b ad, but the real issue is weak fasteners that rust and break

That's why I plan to cut off and hinge the rear of one VW Thing I own so that it can be removed for service on the engine

Keeping their H1's going may be why they hate us so much.

the Peugot 505(?) not sure of the number. It was a wagon and parts were a real problem to get hold of. I once opened up what I thought was a fuse box and found a tangle of small gauge wires. I looked at that and said "I've gotta get rid of this car while it still runs!" I did a little fixing up of it, mostly cosmetic and sold it on a 95 degree day....(the air conditioning was impressively good)! I think I got my money back and a little profit.;)

My dad told me that Citroens were the absolute worse. I've not experienced it but he did. His best friend had one.

My family swore by Peugot's. I swear at them. As someone who grew up in South Africa where they were quite common and we had many - I have to ask...
Why in tarnation would anybody living in the Unites States of America, ever own a French car?

- Peter.

I've not owned one, though my dad had an '85 Peugeot 505 diesel sedan. We did a round trip together from WA state to San Diego in it in the late 80s. He'd been a diesel mechanic at some point in his youth and liked it, did most all of his own work on it. No idea what trouble it might have been to him, he never spoke of it but it was a sweet car to drive. Good power, smooth, and great seats. Sort of a French thing I gather - great seats.

Not long after I had a '66 Volvo 122S. Funky car in a cool way - it had horribly worn seats so I managed to fit some cherry Peugeot seats I found at a boneyard into it.

I don't know. I've become a fan of German cars and Japanese bikes. If I ever get rich I might go for Italian cars (Ferrari) and German bikes (BMW).

My dad used to talk about how the peugots were about all they used in Aftica, they were tough, etc. I drove this one and was enchanted by its compliant ride and perfect steering. I was also taken by the large cargo area and the live rear axle....like a pickup truck.

But I only owned it about a month or two. Probably the least I ever owned a car.

how about the maserati water pumps, that is the worst collosal design failure I can imagine - I did not wrench on it, but just looking at the execution of how the pump is driven makes you think that cocaine was being snorted on the design board.

I am old enough to remember the really easy to work on cars of the forties and fifties. Problem is, you had to do it a LOT.

Most everything today has its challenges, but generally speaking everything lasts forever by comparison, these days if properly cared for.

The C4 vettes would be at the top of the list.

So true.
I used to have to change plugs every 10K on my 1962 MB 190c.

If I used champions or autolite 5K. Also points every 10K, and oil every 3K.
Tires were lucky to last 20K.

Nuts and bolts used to vibrate loose on the Benz too and things would fall off the engine if you did not keep looking for them.

I can't remember the last time I found a random loose bolt on a modern vehicle (and by modern I mean from the eighties or newer;)).

The 190c also needed a valve job every 50K and a water pump every 40k or less.

But that 190c was by far the best car I had owned up til then. Reasonably spunky, great brakes, great handling and ride and would get 24 mpg hi-way if driven 60.

No issues with fasteners on the one I'm playing with - the whole car is just a PITA. Everything is sharp! When they cast the parts, they never took a anything to the sharp edges left over from the process used to cast parts. Edge of the block? Sharp! Sides on the intake manifold? Sharp! Random part of alternator? Sharp! My hands/arms didn't take this much of a beating doing an M103 swap, nor did they take this much of a beating working on an LS1 or on my Miata! Don't get me started on the lack of space either. There's always barely enough space to work on stuff. Need to remove power steering lines? Pull the bumper! Need to pull the radiator? Pull the bumper! Need to replace the serpentine belt? Pull the intake manifold. Complete PITA.

And that's why they dropped the F136R from Maserati, and went to an F136U/Y engine - people weren't happy with having to get a new engine at about 50k miles! Interestingly enough though - the F430/458/California shared the F136, but were an F136 E/I/F. They seem to have a lower occurence of water/oil pump failure, though it might be the more stringent service intervals Ferrari calls for...

Fun... Right?

Not an expert on French cars, but had to work on a few. As mentioned by T. Walgamuth - sourcing parts can be fun.

The Spanish must love them. Last time I was there French cars were everywhere to be seen. Likely easier to deal with over there.

I like how you said 'tried to'.

What happened.....

I would second that. You could reach everything with ease and you became quite skilled at reaching for things because you had to do it on such a regular basis.

Plugs every 10,000 miles; same with shocks. A muffler every 25,000 miles, points and condenser every 10,000, and plug wires every 25,000.

And then, at about 70,000, it was all worn out.

I helped a fellow replace a water pump on a 1975 230 gasser a few years ago. We had to remove the radiator to get access to the water pump as it was really packed in there.

Repairing the A/C on a W140 is also quite a challenge.

I got the job done, something related to the fuel tank having to come down, injection pump needing replacement and some other stuff. I think it was a bad fuel problem if i recall

You can appreciate the design once you resign yourself to everything being a chore to do. One thing that struck me is for a big vehicle, the H1 is packed with no extra room anywhere for anything underneath or in the engine bay, plus armor. Its like working on the firewall side of a minivan motor for everything

None of you have ever worked on the Cadillac Northstar transverse mounted 4.6 V8 it seems. At least dropping the engine is an option for all the mid engine cars listed.

Removing the radiator doesn't sound too bad, that's what you have to do on the 190E 2.6 if you want enough space to easily change anything on the front of the engine, including the belt. It isn't a breeze to remove but it also isn't a pain, I wouldn't know about the W114 though.

I guess it means something that Peugeots are no longer sold in our nation. I see one now and then at Pick n Pull.

A housemate of mine had one in the late 80s - a gasser station wagon. Seemed like a nice car, he liked it.

Dang. That does look challenging:

https://notoriousluxury.files.wordpr...2110.jpg?w=650

Yes I have, good lord that was an experience.

I couldnt understand whose idea it was to place the starter in the valley of the engine.

the AC on a W140 is like a glorified W210 AC, a bit more packed in there.

There was so much stuff in the way it was a five hour job. Replacing the pump took about ten minutes but it took almost two hours to get to it. Then another three to replace everything.

A tune up on a Sunbeam Tiger seems to be a challenge until you find the access plates on the transmission tunnel and remove them.

This it is just really, really hard but it can be done.

I was able to find some pictures and yea, it looks pretty packed in there. I've only seen one W114 in the yards but it seemed to be a lot less modern and harder to work on than even the W116.

Try working on the 190E transmission modulator without dropping the transmission, when you feel like being up for a challenge.

My mechanic who has years of experience with M103's (190E/300E/etc) and their respective drivetrains told me he's never gonna do that job again. He has tricks up his Icelandic sleeves to replace front end items with ease using his own custom tools to remove the fan clutch, etc without removing the radiator.

The 190E would be my pick because it was tight enough to make things challenging, but at the same time I had to do repeat repairs due to issues with CIS-E. I'm so glad I don't have that car anymore.

Packaging. I remember when that engine was a new thing and it sounded like a great idea at the time. I'm guessing whoever signed off on the idea didn't have much/any experience in RAM-D testing. That's Reliability, Availability, Maintainability, and Durability. I worked in that field for a few years. It's best if your stuff just doesn't break during the design life expectancy, but if it does, you want it to be quick and easy to swap out. The original Porsche 911 is pretty good in that respect. It's designed along the lines of a race car in that it's expected that things will break and it's pretty easy to get to things and swap them out quickly.

Unfortunately they also had a penchant for blowing head gaskets. I wouldn't want to be having to replace the rear HG or even changing spark plugs for that matter. There is a reason they are really cheap to purchase.


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The problem is not just limited to the gasket blowing out, the threads in the cylinder block strip out. You you get a can of worms in your hands.

Just makes you wonder why the heck they used the engine all those years. Granted when they are running right they are supposedly very nice, smooth and torquey...I'm sure Tyler can add his experience here. I may be mistaken but I think the only RWD car that they had the northstar on was the XLR?


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Starter in the valley sounds great to me. You replace it what, every 100k? That's about time to refresh the intake gasket anyway. Keeps the starter out of the salt too.