Oh My!! VW is catching up FAST!!! - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

akry · #1 05-03-2002, 02:02 PM

Volkswagen Touareg!!

IMO, VW is catching up with BMW/MB fast, and with this, and recently announced Phaeton, I have no doubt VW would put a big dent on MB/BMW sales figures....

Here's the link to original post...

http://www.vwvortex.com/news/index_touareg_intro.html

Andy Kuo

Ashman · #2 05-03-2002, 02:12 PM

Thats really not bad looking. The fornt kind of remonds me of an ML.

But to me a Volkswagen is still not a luxury automobile.

That may change sooner or later. Volkswagen is really trying hard to up its image, and I think they are doing a good job.

Alon

akry · #3 05-03-2002, 02:26 PM

It actually remindsd me of X5 + Allroad.... hehe...

Anyways, I also think VW is doing a good job, too.. judging from all the pics I have seen of Phaeton so far, the interior fit/finish seems to be as good as Audi A8/BMW 745i, if not better..... MB really needs to put themselves together or I have no doubt Phaeton might steal a big portion of the market.....

And believe it or not... if I get to choose, I might actually go with fully loaded Phaeton rather than MB S430L.... since I usually keep a car for more than 6 years... depreciation doesn't affect me as much.....yet Phaeton seems to be so well put together, interior-wise... which, IMO, is MUCH more important than exterior.....

Andy Kuo

Trelinski · #4 05-03-2002, 03:21 PM

Is this their version of the Cheyenne/Cayenne(whatever its called) ?

engatwork · #5 05-03-2002, 03:25 PM

not bad. I will make sure the wife takes a look at one of these. Wonder if it will be in the US in a diesel version? hmmmmm

suginami · #6 05-03-2002, 07:46 PM

Yep, Audi / Volkswagon have made huuuuuge leaps in quality.

But I can say this for sure - they have passed MB / BMW / Volvo / the Japanese in interior quality. There is no one close to them.

My neighbor across the street from me is an engineer from Honda. My neighbor two doors down is an engineer from Toyota. And my good friend about a mile away is the Director of Quality Control for Mitsubishi Motors U.S.A. It is amazing listening to them talk about all of the information / knowledge sharing they do with engineers in other car companies. In fact, they trade cars all the time, openly, and tear their competitors cars apart to see how they've tackled a specific engineering issue. It is the consensus of all the companies that Audi / Volkswagon have the highest quality interiors of any make, and they are benchmarked in the industry.

MB may still be delusional that their interiors are still best-in-class, but they've fallen waaaaay behind. Can you believe that many of the dash's in the W210's crack! Plastic dash's that still crack in the 21st century? I thought this went away with the Datsun B210's in the seventies...

akry · #7 05-04-2002, 12:08 AM

Indeed this is VW's version of upcoming Porsche SUV... however, as stated on the original site, Porsche SUV AWD system would be more bias toward RWD(more power to rear wheels)....

And I have to agree that Audi seems to have the best interior finish among all German cars.... MB was on top 'til mid 90's when it began to go down.... WAY down... just look at W220, and look at 745i or A8.......hope MB will put themselves together and realize that, they might make more profit out of the cars, but they are losing quite a bit of old, royal customers who got used to Top-Of-The-Line interior finishes....

Andy Kuo

jsmith · #8 05-04-2002, 07:32 AM

the problem with VW's will be service. i had the audi/vw passat which was a beautifully engineered car. i had a audi/porsche/vw dealer who had fairly good techs, with a top notch chief mech. if something went wrong though, i had to grab the chief mech to get a problem fixed. they are nowhere near as sophisticated as any of the master techs on the mercedesshop...

Snibble · #9 05-04-2002, 06:35 PM

Looks like a VW Jetta on steroids

.. still nice though

Gilly · #10 05-04-2002, 11:01 PM

With Mercedes, the interior safety is the most important issue. Appearance is secondary. I agree everything should fit tightly and seams should be even. The wood I think is the best looking around. Some manufacturers don't even aluminum laminate the wood to prevent splintering in a crash, which MB has done for years. If the design isn't pleasing, or you don't like the materials, that's tough, it's there because it is safe and it's designed to be safe in a crash over any other consideration.
In short, MB may not seem to be "beautifully engineered", until you get in a bad accident, then you will see what good engineering is all about.
As far as Audi, the dealership I work at also sells Audi. I shudder every time i pass by their work area, as the is always an A4 or A6 sitting there with the subframe on the floor and the engine in an engine stand, seems like the engines fail alot, and quite horribly too. What a mess!
Gilly

akry · #11 05-05-2002, 03:54 AM

I have to agree AND disagree there.... Safety is one of the highest priority when MB is building their cars...but look at W220?? Hard plastic every where, even door pulls on the doors... shouldn't those hard plastic parts be covered by some kind of soft foam?? Many material used in W220, IMO, are not meant to be safer, but to cut down costs...

Andy Kuo

jjrodger · #12 05-05-2002, 05:57 AM

Quote:

But to me a Volkswagen is still not a luxury automobile.

Alon, Mercedes-Benz never made "luxury" cars: what made Mercedes cars desirable and the manufacturer great was not luxury but quality. Consider the W123, for instance. It is not a "luxury" car, laden with expensive and ostentatious features; it is very simple; but it is of extremely high quality. The same could be said of the W124.

The fact is Mercedes lost it in the nineties and still hasn't regained it. The new E-class does not have the interior quality of a VW. In fact the interior is terrible, the worst part fo the car. All VW is doing is beating Merc at its own game: making cars which unpretentious but very high in quality. A VW must be a very satisfying car to own.

I rode in a VW Passat yesterday. It had a black leather interior. I know the owner of the car does not look after it, it is a work horse for him. The interior was way better than in my C-Class; the leather was of a much higher quality; the plastics were far superior; and despite the abuse this guy gives his cars, there were no rattles, no broken trim, no faults. The same cannot be said for my pampered C.

By the way, there will be a 5 litre V10 diesel generating 300bhp and 550lb/ft of torque. Mmm, might finally be persuaded to get an oil burner!

jsmith · #13 05-05-2002, 12:15 PM

some people in the lease business told me that the build quality in VW's actually appeared to be better than Audi! they are pretty solid cars. for something that you would keep for 3-4 yrs they are ok, beyond that you're on your own.

Gilly · #14 05-05-2002, 12:32 PM

Andy:
Your head isn't all that likely to hit the door pull in an accident, but for the record, the whole outer part of the handle is padded. You have to have some strength to it, I mean, you DO have to pull on it to , uh, "close" the door. The dash is mostly padded, not hard plastic, as well as some aluminum-laminated wood trim. The true difference in engineering and selection of materials (differences you may or may not be able to see) will be apparent after a collision, not before.
And before anyone says that another brands crash-test ratings are better than Mercedes, you have to remember that Mercedes are designed to protect the passengers in many different crash scenarios, they don't always do the best on crash tests. They are designed to protect the passengers, not score the highest on a couple different crash tests. The tests which are used for European countries are actually borrowed from research that Mercedes pioneered. Yesterday's Mercedes standard is todays law!
Gilly

suginami · #15 05-05-2002, 12:33 PM

Yeah, the proof is in the pudding.

VW / Audi sure do have the highest quality interiors, but we'll have to wait and see how they look 10 years from now.

I'm not a betting man, but if I was, I'd be inclined to believe that they'll hold up.

I can't comment on the quality of the engine, but Gillybenztech's comments are a little scary.