1971 Volkswagen Squareback - As Requested. - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Adriel · #1 11-22-2016, 02:13 PM

Nate seemed to request a dedicated thread for my '71 Volkswagen Squareback rather than off tracking his '59 Volkswagen Beetle thread. So here it is.

What we were talking about is wiring issues. So attaching a few photographs.

Consider the last time I worked on her was early this summer trying to make to an event, only to find that not safe to tow with the front beam not fully bolted. It wasn't much and working in the sun inside the Squareback in 120*F weather didn't made it easy.

Adriel · #2 11-22-2016, 02:18 PM

The cold start relay was one of the first things did with automotive wiring, so ashamed how nasty it is.

Now I have a ratcheting crimper and know how to do a better joint, with shrink tubing.

Good looked again, as have had two concussions since putting the the hard start relay on the fuse block with the others.

I did try at that time years ago to do the most logical colors, considering the limited supply at the local electrical supply store that sadly is out of business.

Adriel · #3 11-22-2016, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vwnate1

No ;

The F.I. harness is completely separate, the rest of the wiring remains the same .

Not keeping a weather eye on the ignition timing on Air Cooled engines is foolhardy to the extreme .

In importance :

# 1 COLD VALVE ADJUSTMENT every 3,000 miles .

# 2 HOT OIL CHANGE/SCREEN CLEANING also every 3,000 miles or 2 X year regardless of miles driven . use GOOD QUAILTY Synthetic DIESEL RATED Multi vis. oils ! (only three quarts, don't be a piker) .

$ 3 Ignition timing check and adjust, preferably with the engine running, never, EVER exceed 30° BTDC all in @ 3,000 RPM .

Failure to follow these basics means it'll be unreliable and you'll wind up walking .

Look at the steaming pile of junk I bought ~ it's almost road ready because I addressed these basics before anything else .

Most of the shiny old VW's you see are badly out of tune and poorly maintained to boot .

Odd, all the type 3s seen, experienced, and diagramed in the book the F.I. wiring is part of the main wiring harness. Even the new main wiring harness sold has a notice that doesn't include the main F.I. wiring or the engine wiring harness.

The wires go from the ignition switch, to the fuel pump relay under the dash, to the fuel pump. Also activated at the same time is a wire that is in the main loom that runs under the door's mud guard. It then goes to the F.I. relay under the rear seat, then to the E.C.U.. The engine compartment does have a separate harness, maybe what is confusing you.

She never hit 3,000 miles before I was an idiot. Which brings up something you forgot.

Check the engine height and the mounts. If there is any compression of the mounts and the engine sags, the cooling air intake boot will come off and cook the engine. This mounts are N.L.A., so I.I.R.C. I shimmed mine when replaced the engine.

Further, knew all those, as grew up with Dad's '64 Beetle, remember?

But yours is carbureted. 40 year old F.I. takes years of finding out something wrong and fixing it, often leaving one broken down until fixed. Big issue is the engine compartment wiring breaks down and crumbles. So I bought a N.O.S. C/D F.I. wiring harness and installed it. That fixed a lot of issues. But, still had some, including the wire on the firewall that runs the fuel pump. Now that she has been sitting for way too long, will have to start all over again. It will take years.

But before can get running, need to have the bread to have the body/pan pulled and straitened.

vwnate1 · #4 11-23-2016, 12:31 AM

O.K. subbed .

Adriel · #5 11-23-2016, 12:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vwnate1

O.K. subbed .

Nate, think the connectors could have that much affect?

Sure glad to have this help.

vwnate1 · #6 11-23-2016, 12:53 AM

Affect on _what_ ? .

Adriel · #7 11-23-2016, 01:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vwnate1

Affect on _what_ ? .

Nate, as I said, all I remember was the hard start relay was giving me problems.

Now with this 280TE needing a lot of attention, doubt even having time. But, maybe just need to make time. Especially now the weather has turned down right cold.

vwnate1 · #8 11-23-2016, 01:13 AM

Yes but you keep meandering all over the map and confuddling me .

The cold start relay and hard start relay are completely different .

I cannot imagine trying to run it sans cold start injector .

Anyways, yes connectors are always suspicious ~ more so as you're splicing mis matching wires .

Adriel · #9 11-23-2016, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vwnate1

Yes but you keep meandering all over the map and confuddling me .

The cold start relay and hard start relay are completely different .

I cannot imagine trying to run it sans cold start injector .

Anyways, yes connectors are always suspicious ~ more so as you're splicing mis matching wires .

Because I got no answers and picked one that thought most pertinent.

Where is the cold start relay? Don't ever remember one, my memory is telling me cold starting is integrated into the brain.

Most of Southern California runs without them. They are N.L.A. and leak causing issues.

Just have to know when it is cold and instead use your foot. I am currently doing this on a 280TE I am working on because the oil was very saturated with fuel and we are testing the possibility it is causing it.

I even ran a OM617a in 30 degree weather without glow plugs, so just anything possible.

vwnate1 · #10 11-23-2016, 09:44 PM

You said cold start relay and then hard start relay as if they were the same....

A drooling fifth injector isn't a thing that's hard to replace and they're caused by failure to do basic mtce.

I understand the wandering mind but part of running old vehicles more easily is doing things properly and in the correct order....

Fix the niggly little things you've already mentioned along with the basic tune up stuff and you might be surprised that it'll start and run well and motivate you to fixing the body damage or whatever it was that sidelined it .

Adriel · #11 11-23-2016, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vwnate1

You said cold start relay and then hard start relay as if they were the same....

A drooling fifth injector isn't a thing that's hard to replace and they're caused by failure to do basic mtce.

I understand the wandering mind but part of running old vehicles more easily is doing things properly and in the correct order....

Fix the niggly little things you've already mentioned along with the basic tune up stuff and you might be surprised that it'll start and run well and motivate you to fixing the body damage or whatever it was that sidelined it .

Nate, we sure are having miscommunication...

I did? Oops...

Consider I have a concussion with confusion (worse is waking up in the middle of the night dripping with sweat and wondering where I am), lack of concentration, and short plus working memory loss. Amazing I even remember where to find my anus to wipe it, or remember to at all.

You have a supply of N.O.S. cold start injectors for D and K Jetronic?

I have looked back then and told over and over cold start injectors for Volkswagen D Jetronic N.L.A.. Also be good to replace the sensor if possible so all systems a go.

What is the basic maintenance on a cold start injector?

How about soaking it in Kleen and dissolving some deposits? Or cycling fluid through?

It was a line from a song adapted to me wandering in the thread.

When it comes to going through a vehical, pretty methodical. But, get very easily overwhelmed, especially if my daily driver. Sure miss having two running vehicals.

How can I straiten the body and pan without a frame machine or some trees?

Being a squatter, last thing want to do is damage the property trying to pull on a patio post too hard.

Also she was sidelined due to a lack of funding and time. Have setback after setback of getting a decent income. When I get really angry I can't even find a manual labor job, I start taking it out on the people that took those jobs from lazy Americans. It take at least $5,000 to get her back on the road.

vwnate1 · #12 11-24-2016, 05:41 AM

If you can, I'd give running some cleaner through it ~ IIRC they're ' Pintle ' typ injectors and often can be cleaned .

The failure to change that square fuel filter up in front is what kills most D-Jet injectors .

Rebuilts or oddly enough USED should do the trick . plenty of German cars used the D-Jet F.I. system so they're out there ~ old Mercedes S-Klasses, Audis, Volvos on and on....

If the sensor is any good LEAVE IT ALONE ! .

As far as jobs : I have no shame in putting on an apron so I'll always have one if I need one .

Adriel · #13 11-24-2016, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vwnate1

If you can, I'd give running some cleaner through it ~ IIRC they're ' Pintle ' typ injectors and often can be cleaned .

The failure to change that square fuel filter up in front is what kills most D-Jet injectors .

Rebuilts or oddly enough USED should do the trick . plenty of German cars used the D-Jet F.I. system so they're out there ~ old Mercedes S-Klasses, Audis, Volvos on and on....

If the sensor is any good LEAVE IT ALONE ! .

As far as jobs : I have no shame in putting on an apron so I'll always have one if I need one .

Nate, to be clear, you mean the the cold start injector?

For some reason, thought the cold start injector was of a different design than the main injector?

Yes, you remind me forgot to order and replace the 280TE fuel filter. I was going to first run some cleaner through, so if did loosen junk doesn't clog a new filter.

The cold start injectors are rebuildable?

As to your comment about any D Jetronic part working on any engine, that is not the case. Each engine is of a different size, compression, and camshaft grind. So different amounts of fuel delivered at different times. I would expect even the cold start injector to go up in size with the chamber size.

Further, I seem to recall some D Jetronic injectors had different connectors? I do know D and K are different, so not an option for either.

How does one test the sensor? I don't recall seeing its resistance in any books come across.

What do you mean putting on an apron?

If food service, not allowed to have a dog in the kitchen, even if a Service Dog.

vwnate1 · #14 11-24-2016, 02:20 PM

ALL D-jet. cold start injectors are interchangable if they fit, they'll work as they only ever operate for seconds .

Yes, they're rebuildable but not DIY .

I am well aware of how D-Jet parts vary .

They all use the same conectors and harness plugs making Junk Yarding your primary parts source I should think .

OOPS SWMBO calls .

vwnate1 · #15 11-24-2016, 02:43 PM

A Service Dog eh ? .

I have two ~ I don't know how I ever made it without them before .

OOPS : yes , the cold start injector is different than the regular fuel injectors as it's not a critical calibration ~ it either sprays a fine mist or not, no drooling allowed .

The Cold Start Sensor must always have some resistance ~ the closer to zero the richer the engine runs.

For quick testing just ground it ~ if the engine now starts : !presto ! you have found the problem .