Tipping Myths? - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

ML Dude · #16 07-05-2002, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by WmHarlow

The service industry in this country has gone to hell in a handcart. Workers do not care becasue they are treated like dirt. If we all said a few kind words and tipped appropriately, the service we receive next time will be better for all of us! [/B]

While I agree that tipping is not done correctly, I completely disagree that service in this country sucks. The service level that we Americans are accustomed to are not found worldwide. We have great service here.

Now with regard to tipping, I think far too many cheeky smart aleck young people think it's easy money and perform service jobs expecting gratuities. A tip is not required, it's earned!

I'm very generous with service providers who show me effort and results. I feel forced to tip some people, car wash attendents, who clearly are not doing a careful job. I don't like that and we consumers should be more observant!

jjrodger · #17 07-05-2002, 07:27 PM

The problem with tipping is that it has become obligatory. So it's not tipping, it's just a tax. All of these lists, $10 for a taxi driver $1 for a dry-cleaner 10 cents for a lap dancer... it's so much rubbish. What about: good service = tip, bad service = no tip?

And by the way all you people in "service industries": I'm already paying for adequate service. If you want a tip, give me better than adequate service, give me excellent service. If you do, I will certainly tip you, and tip you well.

If you don't want to give adequate or better than adequate service in your job, get a different job.

#18 07-05-2002, 07:42 PM

I have a friend that is a taxi driver and after talking to him I will tip anytime I ride in a taxi. They get paid very little and if it's not busy don't get much pay at all. They also do take a risk being out there driving at odd hours.
I agree with WmHarlow
About people treating others like dirt. just because I'm a kid I get yelled at by people because they don't think I know about our stores procedures or products.
MLDUDE
is right to there are to many smart aleck people. but not everyone is that way I work hard and I'm proud of my work and I know lots of other kids my age that are this way.

k I'm done now

Jason Beal · #19 07-05-2002, 11:51 PM

Now here's a topic that is always greatly debated. I myself have been a waiter in fine dining for ten years, so tipping is my wage. I never ever argue that my hourly pay is 2.13/hr. That is not the point. First of all I don't see that money, that goes straight to taxes. The point is tipping on the service provided. In this country is 15-20 percent.

People may argue that they don't get tipped at their job, and it's not their fault that this person gets a low or non-existent wage. I see their point but if you paid a waiter/waitress seven dollars an hour what kind of service would you get? Unlikely it would be that good. Say you went the other way and paid a waiter twenty an hour. That would not necessarily mean you're going to get service either. Where is the incentive for the lazy waiter? Also, imagine what paying a waiter a high hourly rate would do to food cost? It would put it through the roof. Tipping is the only true way (in my honest opinion) that you will get decent service when you go out.

I will admit that over the years it is very easy to stereo type certain groups be it by race or just culturally that tip better or worse. The best tippers in my opinion? North easterners! Not the most polite, but who cares. Give me a demanding New Yorker who tips 20% any day. This discussion will always leave people pointing fingers and calling the other a racist or whatever. But over time, it is what it is. There are plenty of exceptions to the rule, but eventually you pretty much know what to expect.

In Utah people tip so poorly the Salt Lake Tribune actually did an article on it. The article took the position that tipping ten percent or less was the standard maybe 30 years ago but not today. And that is what the majority of locals here tip. That is why I drive an hour to Deer Valley to work, to avoid locals.

I don't tip well for rude or sloppy service. If it takes a while to get my food, I can think of a million reasons why it's not here, so I don't deduct from the tip. But if my glass is empty and my waiter is standing around in plain view.... Well.... you know.

The letters in reponse to the Trib article were shocking, but I guess I should have known out here. Almost all were against tipping and thought waiters should get better jobs. I think most of them had the impression that we all run to the table to see what the tip is once they leave. My favorite moment ever as a server was in Deer Valley. I mentioned returning to school the next semester; all the waiters turned around and said, "You don't have a degree?”

rickg · #20 07-06-2002, 03:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jason Beal

People may argue that they don't get tipped at their job, and it's not their fault that this person gets a low or non-existent wage. I see their point but if you paid a waiter/waitress seven dollars an hour what kind of service would you get? Unlikely it would be that good. Say you went the other way and paid a waiter twenty an hour. That would not necessarily mean you're going to get service either. Where is the incentive for the lazy waiter? Also, imagine what paying a waiter a high hourly rate would do to food cost? It would put it through the roof. Tipping is the only true way (in my honest opinion) that you will get decent service when you go out.

The point is, that if this system worked like other average jobs, those that give good service to customers, that person gets incentive such as, oh, maybe keeping his/her job for instance! I have worked as a machinist for the past 18 years. I will never get rich doing this. I get a fair wage. It pays the bills so to speak. But I have risen through the ranks over the years by going 110% in what I do. I have NEVER asked for a pay raise or a bonus in my life, but I have always gotten them when I have worked for a company that appreciates their employees. When I haven't gotten what I considered fair treatment, I move on, which has happened very seldom.
It is probably the fault more of the "system" that has evolved over the years that people may need to work in such a situation that depends on tipping, then of those who work in it. But where does it end if more and more buisnesses use this system to avoid needing to pay their employees a fair wage? As long as most people are willing to "go along" and tip for this and that, then buisnesses are going to be able to milk it for all it's worth. But if a few like me stop contributing to it, then those buisnesses will not be able to keep employees, and will have to give in and "share the wealth" by at least paying their people minimum wage. It only benefits the company as I see it. By not paying employees a full wage, they don't have to pay as much FICA and other taxes to big brother, don't have to offer benifits, ect.
I am happy to hear rebuttals from anyone that has a buisness of their own that uses the tipping system for their employees. I may be way wrong on this issue. But so far I don't see it. By the way, I have a daughter that has worked as a waitress for several years now, so I have some second hand knowledge of how it works(or doesn't!)
Whew!

Kuan · #21 07-06-2002, 08:59 AM

Waiters in fine dining can rake in about 100k a year (and why are they all men?). No kidding. I know of at least a few who do. When the Sultan of Brunei walks in and orders 4 bottles of 1789 Chateau d'yquem with their foie gras... well, you get the picture. Doesn't happen that often though. But it goes to show what you can do if you know what you're doing.

Kuan

Lebenz · #22 07-06-2002, 10:52 AM

Our rule of thumb is to take the local sales tax (8.8%) and double it, and round up or down for level of service. I don’t think anyone has mentioned it but a tip is an acronym of the phrase “To Insure Promptness” but it is an all too typical part of our society that service folks behave in a lazy and indifferent manner. At our regular restaurants we tip more than that. As example during the ski season I eat at the same restaurant many times and know a lot of the kids that work there. I tip 30-40 + % and get wonderful service, such as huge salads (the wait staff makes the salads), a pot of coffee or pitcher of water left at the table, and other niceties that are never on the menu. I consider a good tip a small price to pay for a much more enjoyable dining experience.

Last weekend we gave a couple of delivery guys $40 for moving a large object into the garage. It took them about 3 minutes. When we first moved into the house it took 6 of us to move it in. Again it was well worth it.

#23 07-06-2002, 12:11 PM

I have been involved in the restaurant industry for almost 20 years as a General Manager, Director of Operations and most recently as an owner. I feel I have some experience in contributing to this topic. First of all, RickG is incorrect in assuming places that have tipped employees don't have to pay FICA or other employer taxes. It is simply not the case. The IRS has become much more stringent in requiring employers to pay payroll taxes on ESTIMATED tip income received by their service staff. Years ago, service staff individuals were able to enjoy a decent portion of their tip income tax free. Today, many restaurants receive much of their payments in credit cards which make it impossible for servers to have unclaimed income. Secondly, any successful organization that wishes to retain quality individuals must offer some benefits to their employees. Ten years ago it was difficult for many servers to get health insurance. Today, I don't know of any national casual theme or upper end dining company that doesn't offer at least some type of health coverage. I haven't even begun to talk about paid vacation, 401K, profit sharing, college tuition reimbursement, meal discounts, etc... An individual who has the attitude of "Being of Service," can make $50K-$90K a year. It's not easy and it doesn't happen automatically. It requires a decent amount of skill, and the willingness to serve others. There are many more people who are not successful in the hospitality industry because they feel it is demeaning or "below" them. These people have no place in the service industry. Unforunately, many places don't make good hiring decisions and service suffers. RickG, who do you think is going to pay if restaurants have to pay what you call a "fair wage?" I got news for you...It will be you. The restaurant will raise prices to cover the added labor expense. Restaurants operate on very thin profit margins, it's not coming out of that I can assure you. RickG, if you think you are doing any good by not tipping, do all of us in the restaurant industry a favor and eat at home!

Best Regards,

SteveM
2002 G500

Jason Beal · #24 07-06-2002, 02:33 PM

Servers, if they are smart claim ten percent of their tips. At the end of every night you must claim 100% of your credit card tips (DUH), and then all of your cash. Before anyone claims "cheat" I'll tell you why I claim ten percent. Usually a servers tip out (tips back to the busser, bar, food runner) equals five percent of his/her sales. Hence the ten percent. I've actually seen some restaurants down in Florida, where the 2.13hr didn't cover the taxes. This would leave the server owing money. One place called this a "red check" meaning you had to pay the fifty or so tax before you could go on the floor the next week. Although this would be met with grumbling, it meant that the server made well over 700 for the week.

I feel that I get tipped on my knowledge of wine and food, and knowing what the guest wants. Once a server learns wine, you can count on your income rising. I never have thought serving was below me. Especially as I got older an into higher end places. I won't say it's my dream job, but what the hell is? My dream job would include a sexy Latin lady and the beach somewhere.

I will agree with a previous post that fine dining restaurants have men primarily as waiters. I'm not sure why. Two places I worked in Tampa both had one or maybe two waitresses that was it. I never dreamed I would be a waiter at 31. But the money made Vs time worked always wins me over. The only downside to the biz is no health insurance at most places, 401k, paid vacation etc etc. (That’s something you an still do yourself-invest) It is certainly a job for somebody with thick skin. You must constantly be on, dealing with numerous personalities through the night. You may have a great table, and a Chef (We had one we used to call Hitler) that literally throws pan around the kitchen if they want something changed. Most of the tension in the restaurant is usually created between the front and back of the house (Kitchen Vs. servers). I'd say on the whole, most people are very nice. They may just want what they want, and that's fine with me. If you spend money when you go out, you deserve to get what you want. With me you'll get it.

chowpit · #25 07-07-2002, 12:15 AM

I agree that tips are earned. Its called a "gratuity" because you are gratified for the service you received.
If you can't perform the simple task of refilling my glass or asking if I would like another beer then you receive no tip.
OTOH if I receive top notch service then you will get a top notch tip. I remember telling a waiter once that I was so impressed with his service that I wished I could take him to every resturant that I went to. I also reflected the compliment in my tip.
I don't tip bartenders for popping the top off my beer. I do tip bartenders for mixing a mixed drink stronger than normal.

Quick story; Went to Sam's Club in a neighboring city to get tires for my dually (1 ton pick-up). They wouldn't mount the tires because they said their equipment couldn't handle the weight. The only problem was that my partner just had his tires put on his dually a couple of months before at the same place. Their solution was for me to buy the tires there and then go to another Sam's and have them mounted there. NOT!!!
I did go to the other Sam's in which I bought and had the tires mounted there. I tipped the two mechanics $10 a piece and told them to call the other store and rub it in their face. Don't know if they actually did.

rickg · #26 07-07-2002, 01:32 AM

Reading back over what I wrote last night I see I made it sound like I don't tip at resarants. I do. And yes,I do it "by the rules". Thanks SteveM for passing on the info you did. I see I had some of my facts wrong, and I am man enough to admit when I'm wrong.

But what you pointed out doesn't always apply. My daughter has never had any benifits in the places she's worked at, and some weeks she doesn't make enough to even equal minimum wage. Not that she does a lousy job. She just works at a small restaraunts in small towns. She sticks with it because she enjoys the type of work. One place she was working at was so bad, she actully passed out right in the middle of the resaraunt because they wouldn't allow the waitresses to take a lunch break, and the owner was too cheap to turn on the air conditioning. She quit that job thankfully.
If I have to pay more, big deal. If I can know the person serving me is making a decent living, and I don't have to screw around figuring out how much to tip, I can live with that. In the end I'll probably end up forking over about the same amount out the door anyhow.
So I still don't agree with the whole tipping system, and probably never will. When it comes to money matters, I'm a simple person. I want to see a price for something I want or need, and pay that price. Period. I will not tip at car washes for instances. When the heck did this start? I pay going in, and don't need a surprise at the other end. What's next? Will I have to tip the guy at the hardware store for quickly selling me the right size bolt?
I'm done now. I've pissed off enough people, which actually wasn't my intention. So I'll quietly step back and shut up.

Ben300SD · #27 07-12-2002, 02:24 AM

Reading some of these posts is simply infuriating. Perhaps I have a slanted viewpoint, as I do work as a bartender, but I find it completely selfish and disgusting when people refuse to tip for service that is acceptable.

If a person does not agree with the tipping system here in the United States, then that person should never step into a full service restaurant. It was previously stated by somebody that many servers average $3.50 per hour, and the guy in Utah mentioned that he makes $2.13 per hour. This is pretty normal from my experience.

The Utah fellow also mentioned that most of the $2.13 wage goes to taxes. This is entirely true. Many of you people who haven't worked in the service industry are used to getting paychecks of an adequate size. Back before I started bartending and making a semi-decent hourly wage, I once received a paycheck for $0.76. This was after two 45 hour weeks.

People who tip me well always receive prompt service, strong drinks, good conversation, and whatever else it takes to make them comfortable. People who tip poorly or not at all receive service when I get around to it, drinks made exactly to spec, and a definite conversational cold shoulder. It's the way it is, and my experience is not unique.

Well, there is my rant.

Cheers,

David C Klasse · #28 07-12-2002, 03:14 PM

I have no problem leaving a meager tip to a waitress or waiter who I'm dissatisfied with.
But if I really liked the waitress, I tip very well.

I will, on occasion, leave a few pennies and nickles on the table if I recieved terrible service. I hope it insults them, the way they insulted me with pathetic service!! (J/K 1/2)

David C Klasse · #29 07-12-2002, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ben300SD
I once received a paycheck for $0.76.

Did you cash it!??!

Ben300SD · #30 07-12-2002, 03:37 PM

No, I didn't cash it. I decided that it was worth way more than $0.76 in entertainment value, so it is framed on my wall.

I should add that I do receive decent paychecks now, as I receive a decent wage for being a bartender. However, many servers in this country routinely receive checks for $15-$20 per week.