everyone has a different idea of what, exactly, is "justice". to me, Saudi Arabia has quite the model:

1. No prisons, tax payers don't have to pay pay pay and pay more to keep up prisons.

2. Justice is SWIFT. If caught stealing, they give you a break the first time by cutting off your non-dominant hand. Caught stealing again and they cut of your dominant hand. They then place the stump into hot bacon grease so your hand can never be surgicallly re-attached.

Murder? They do hold a trial which is good. If the guy is found guilty they place him in a stadium filled with around 20,000++++ people who witness the execution. They cut off his head and sometimes broadcast the execution via television throughout the middle east.

Last I checked Saudi Arabia has only around four to six homicides PER YEAR. they obviously don't need a prison system. Also, they think we, the sheeples of the united states are flat out STUPID for putting up with the crap we put up with.

A friend, an insurance agent visited Saudi Arabia recently. He said there are jewelry merchants selling VERY expensive jewelry kept on out in the open on tables out on the street. no locked cases, no security is needed because their isn't much in the way of shop lifting.....

I'm sorry, I don't think that's a good alternative. Plenty of thieves in the US have gone on to be solid citizens. Missing a hand or two they wouldn't have been very good taxpayers.

I visited Mazatlan in 1976, was there for about a week. I saw a guy begging on the street a couple of times, missing both hands, non-jagged stumps on both sides. Word wise he had been punished for thievery. Yeah, that'll work, make someone into a lifetime beggar for having stole a few things. If you've not read Les Miserables I recommend it. Find an abridged version, the unabridged is only for groupies of the story. I made it halfway through it once, interesting, but too much.

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Te futueo et caballum tuum

1986 300SDL, 362K
1984 300D, 138K

Well I believe that having over three million people incarcerated is not helping us in any way, form or fashion. At least the way Saudi does it, everyone understand the rules. thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal kinda thing.

On this side of the pond, the entire system makes a lot of money the moment someone is caught stealing or killing. Lawyers make money defending the moron. Bail Bondsmen make money bonding his sad a** outta jail. The courts make money assessing court costs plus fines fines and more fines. The jails make money housing his thieving a**. And, while in jail, he teaches the other inmates how to be better thieves. The list goes on and on, doesn't it?

all over some jerk-off stealing a ten dollar shirt.

I'll have to go along with at least some of that. They put people in stir, give them three regular if mediocre meals. They don't need to do anything to keep the rain off or to keep from freezing. Their brains go to sleep. After a number of years of that they put them back on the street with a "good luck."

__________________
Te futueo et caballum tuum

1986 300SDL, 362K
1984 300D, 138K

Given: 'Eating pork is prohibited in Islam, based on the teachings of the Quran and Prophet Muhammad. The Quran explicitly forbids the consumption of pork in several verses' --------- Where do they get it from? Just happen to have it on hand?

what I do care about is the three million plus federal and state prisoners that we, joe public is paying out the a** for. At least half are in lock-up over victimless crimes, btw.

Fast forward to Saudi Arabia; the Saudi people pay ZERO dollars for prison upkeep. That's ZERO as in ZILCH, NADA, NOTHING.

What could we do with those dollar savings? Where would america be today if we weren't spending money on increasingly stupid programs?

BTW, prisons and jails in the country began with the Quakers. The Quaker religion believes that a man or woman who commits a sin (AKA "crime") must spend time in solitary lock-up so they can better repent of their sins and pray to the prison guards and ask them for forgiveness.

PENance:

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/penance


PENitentiary

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/penitentiary

it all has spiritual undertones, doesn't it?

remember, the police are out each and every day looking for SINNERS. At some point they will turn their light on you and your family. And you can rest easy knowing your accusers are living a perfect, sin-free life. you are the one who is sinning, not them. remember that.

and, before I forget, you might want to source a top-notch criminal defense lawyer PRIOR to you or your family members being put on the hot seat. The majority of people I knew who got arrested for their sins didn't have an existing relationship with ANY defense lawyer. While sitting in jail, their families were busy looking to the internet or the yellow page phone book trying to find a decent lawyer. At that point in time, it's a little to little a little too late......

I must have heard the foregoing story hundreds of times; they didn't see it coming. Between the bail bonds and attorney retainer fees, they were cleaned out financially and in more than a few cases, spending all that money got them NOWHERE.

It's a tough one. Which would you rather have, penitentiaries or summary execution? I don't think we're ever going to know how many of those people executed in Saudi Arabia really weren't guilty.

I'm with Richard Pryor regarding prisons:

https://youtu.be/L_6KiWVHoYU?si=66Z3TpchLy1EmRLL

__________________
Te futueo et caballum tuum

1986 300SDL, 362K
1984 300D, 138K

I believe it is time for me to bow out of this conversation. I'm resting easy knowing that copaganda works and works well. Public state funded eduction starting at the age of five to make sure little johnny and little susie learn to obey their masters from an early age. Politicians continue to sell the big lie to the sheeple and the sheeple continue to believe every word as if moses himself said it. I almost forgot, time to head down to the polls and "cast my vote".

Yeah you might as well stay home right?

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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

migration migration migration. old as time itself. On the local level, I am aware of a large group of over taxed veterans who sold their homes in Virginia and then moved to North Carolina. why? because Virginia jacked up their taxes and North Carolina offered these veterans a better deal (for the time being.....). Of course one can only play hop scotch for so long, right?

On an international scale, I am aware of several very wealthy people who sold ALL of their United States based assets (homes, cars, furniture, businesses, etc. etc) then moved overseas where they continue to be much happier than living here in the land of the fee and the home of the slave.