Dad is Thinking outside the MB Circle : CAMRY??? - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

ymsin · #1 07-30-2002, 12:09 AM

The 260E is giving him a little too much problems (although its chauffered-driven ... ) and he is now thinking of the new CAMRY (Toyota).

I am curious what the CAMRY is like - can anyone draw their experiences on this car?

He is moving away from the E210 (he likes only the E-class) for two reasons:

1. priced way above the market with
2. reputation of its inferior quality with expensive parts.

I am in favour of waiting for the de-regulation of the car market in 2004/5 and perhaps settle for the W211 which looks a killer.

But with newer Benzes nowadays, its very disturbing to learn of their inferior quality. Just last week, I know of one W220 S-Class stalling on the road because of a short circuit. The gears wouldnt engage, and everything went dead without notice. This marks exactly a year since the car lost all its brakes and had its ECU changed ... talk about a new S-class acting up!

Well, back to the original post-question: Whats a new CAMRY like? (I thought it looked more like an S-class except for a little comestic difference here and there... )

#2 07-30-2002, 12:50 AM

A Camry vs. an E-class????

You're seriously joking. Please tell me you are.

These cars are merely a tarted up economy car, and they are front-wheel-drive to boot. If your dad really REALLY wants an alternative to an MB, an outgoing BMW 5 series would be a good bet, because they are RWD and made with European driving tastes in mind. The Camry doesn't come close to any V6 or V8 W210 car (and definitely not to the W126 that I drive!).

I always heard that the W210's mechanical reliability was pretty good, too. Plastic pieces that look cheap don't make a car an unreliable car....talk to either of the RWD Volvos in the family right now. Incredibly reliable with regular preventative maintenance, but they do have some cheap interior touches. And they drive with a much less bland and isolated feel than any Camry.

-Sam

JCE · #3 07-30-2002, 01:07 AM

Kerry:

We just discussed this with the tech who does our 84 toyota Celica GTS, and who used to do everything on our 88 Legend Coupe. His impression (and everyone in his shop seems to agree) is that Toyota has lost a lot of durability in the last 3 years.

Even though I had rotten luck with our Honda Civic and Acura Legend, He feels that the Hondas are at the top of the short rterm reliability race, even though they seem to have a lot of brake problems in his estimation. He said that he wouldn't keep any of the new cars, especially the Japanese and Korean cars, for more than 100,000 miles.

Their shop crew agreed on Nissan as number 2 in the lineup (except the Sentra), with Mazda and Subaru next, and with Mitsubishi, Toyota and the Korean cars at the bottom (Engine problems on all the Toyotas he has seen just about the time the warranty ends.)

The Lexus, Infinity, and Acura in that order are a bit different. He said that the manufacturers have seemed to leave the quality relatively intact, but he thinks the parts are expensive, and that they have become so complex that they will also be money pits after 100-150k miles. His opinion is that everyone is making complex cars to be leased, not bought. Emphasis seems to be on tech toys and cushy ride over handling and durability.

Really sad - our Celica has 289,000 HARD miles on it still on the original drive train, AC, and cooling system. It has been a great car, and still going strong.

ymsin · #4 07-30-2002, 02:56 AM

Thank you all for your comments. I certainly feel that its better to wait and see the latest E rolling into the market.

But I can understand my dad's concern when he has been fed all kinda horror info from MB Techs and people who owned them. Even my brother is incline to believe that the 210 is somewhat not as reliable as it should (btw - he swears by the 123 which he hails as the best ever built).

That having said, I believe the CAMRY may be just for a short-term while he feels around for a longer term MB.

Keep well.

ps. Great to hear from you John! Hope all is well.

jsmith · #5 07-30-2002, 04:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by JCE

Their shop crew agreed on Nissan as number 2 in the lineup (except the Sentra), with Mazda and Subaru next, and with Mitsubishi, Toyota and the Korean cars at the bottom (Engine problems on all the Toyotas he has seen just about the time the warranty ends.)

The Lexus, Infinity, and Acura in that order are a bit different. He said that the manufacturers have seemed to leave the quality relatively intact, but he thinks the parts are expensive, and that they have become so complex that they will also be money pits after 100-150k miles. His opinion is that everyone is making complex cars to be leased, not bought. Emphasis seems to be on tech toys and cushy ride over handling and durability.

that's a pretty good synopsis on what's going on in the japanese car market. i had a 96 camry which was the last year model for that style. all i did was change the oil for 3 yrs - not one trip to the dealership. but then it was a cheap lease - which made the experience all the more pleasant. my current japanese car favorite is the Infiniti G35 followed by the Acura 3.2 TLS. i think they are great value for the money. of course, i would really rather have a Lexus GS but they're priced around $10k more.

placo1 · #6 07-30-2002, 10:47 AM

My parents have had a Camry in the family for over 10 years now. They drive a ton (35 - 45K/Year) and I have to say that none of the Camry's ever gave them trouble. They usually get rid of them around 100K so I'm not sure about reliabity after that but under 100K nothing has ever gone wrong with them.

The ride is very very isolated. The car tends to lean in turns, generally has undersized tires that roll in corners and makes for an overall boring drive. The steering doesn't require any effort and neither does the gas pedal. The dashboard layout is ok but the Honda's are way way better.

I've found the Honda's handling and feedback to be much better than the Camry and I would suggest driving both to see the differences.

As far as reliability I would have to agree with everyone. I think that consumer demand is leading the industry towards gimicky option packed vehicles which increases the chance of having problems.

If you want to avoid this then get an MB that isn't loaded with options. Maybe you can do a European delivery which is offered through dealerships and get the exact options you want.

RG5384 · #7 07-30-2002, 11:08 AM

i once read(sorry if it's already been said, didn't read through all replies)
Toyota Camry= appliance on wheels

Ryan

SL five hunnert · #8 07-30-2002, 11:13 AM

I have a Camry that I've had since new. Things wear out, but never break.

A few years after we bought the Camry, my wife bought an Accord. The Honda is a much nicer driving car, and is just as reliable as the Camry.

Though our Honda has low miles (150,000 kilometers/95,000 miiles) I think it will hold up well in the long run. Parts and service for either is really expensive, but as they age you can get parts at places other than the dealer.

Why do Mercedes owners gripe about radiators? Our Honda has had a new one, and the Toyota is on it's third. It's a fact of life with plastic radiators as far as I can see. And the one for our Accord was only $300 for a non-Honda, but the Honda part was over $1000.

JoelS · #9 07-30-2002, 04:37 PM

We have a '96 Camry Wagon that's been a good, albeit unspectacular, car. It's been quite reliable and comfortable. It's the LE model with leather (faux-leather?) interior, Bose stereo system, 3rd seat, wood burl (faux, I'm sure) dash accents etc. In comparing it to our other wagon (a 123 body 300td), it is quieter, has better AC and is quite comfortable...but just doesn't have the character of the MB. My wife - who was initially underwhelmed by the Benz - said it best when she remarked that the MB doesn't wallow around on the highway. It feels like it's locked down on rails at highway speeds. The Camry just isn't as enjoyable on the highway. It's been a good car, though there have been a number of problems for a car with relatively low mileage (< 75k): had to have a new window motor installed in the driver's door this week at a cost of > $400. Also, alternator went out around 60k (covered under warranty, though), the CD player is starting to act up, and the 'wood' dash elements have an odd discoloration developing behind them. The 300td seems to have more room in the wagon area, too, not to mention the *****in' chrome luggage rails!

The Camry goes in the paper this weekend, my wife takes over the Mercedes and I start the hunt for a cheap ($3000 or so) 300D or SD or possibly all-manual 240D. Keep me in mind, please, if you see a winner out there!

Take care,

Joel

DJChillfit · #10 07-30-2002, 08:30 PM

Maybe it's just coincidence, but every time I hear someone talk about their Camry they talk about window problems. It seems the motors for their windows frequently malfunction. Anyway, back to the topic at hand.

william rogers · #11 08-03-2002, 03:18 AM

If you like cheap white bread the camry is the car to carry it home in......
William Rogers.....

SL five hunnert · #12 08-03-2002, 09:18 PM

Go back in time to 1990. A 1991 Camry (fully loaded) sold for about $22,000. That was top of the line.

A 1990 190E 2.3 was about $40,000.

Buying a Mercedes wasn't an option for "regular" people. Cripes, you could still buy a house for $60,000.

Back to 2002...

...A 2003 Camry (fully loaded) hits $40,000. A C240 is about $42,000. Things have changed greatly.

#13 08-03-2002, 09:58 PM

We have a 1997 4cyl. Camry that we got new. It's got a 130k and runs real well but you can tell it's coming up on the end of it's life. The interior feels dead and there is nothing special about the inside to start. It needs new struts but it still drives find just noisy over bumps. Fuel PSI is running low so it will need a fuel pump soon. Paint does'nt hold up to well. Timing belts are a big thing to take care of the engine must be tipped at and angle to do it. It's slow but does get good gas mileage. It has an ok stereo to. Thats about it.
things replaced(off the top of my head)
Timing belt twice
Ignition lock
Tires (factory are garbage)
a/c switch
Struts (this week)
gear selector knob
Thats it

I still like MB's better but it's not a bad car

Jason Beal · #14 08-04-2002, 02:39 AM

We bought our 1997 Camry LE with 31k on it. The only problem we've had so far was a strut mount going out. Other than that it has been fine. It seems to bottom out very easy which is very annoying. Just changed the timing belt and did the 60k service on it too. I would drive it to Fla tomorrow without a worry. It isn't as much fun to drive, and is underpowered a bit.

Overall though, it is what it is. Reliable, good MPG, family mobile. I take very good care of it, and am curious to see how long it lasts. I'd like to see it go past 200k, and I'm sure it will. I like both my cars for different reasons.

tkd_M119 · #15 08-04-2002, 06:57 AM

Can't speak for the Camry in particular but...I do think that Japanese cars, for the most part, tend to be more reliable than German. I'm sure there are many on this board who may disagree with me. But this has been my experience. Our family has owned two MBZs and a 5 series BMW - all were bought new. All were great cars but they always had something going out on them. After the BMW my father turned his back on German cars. I think that the expectation of most consumers (at least American) is that if a car cost a lot of money, it should work flawlessly. I've met many loyal German car owners and they seem to be able to accept the "quirks." Most Camry/Accord owners seem to care less about "personality" and more about getting from point A to point B. I do believe that Japanses cars tend to wear out "cosmetically" faster than there Mercedes counterparts.

Despite what I've just written, I did recently purchase a W124. Since I bought it used I didn't spend the small fortune it would have cost me new. Besides, cars like the Camry and Accord bore me to death.