2002 Lexus IS 300 - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

blackmercedes · #16 01-21-2003, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jr. Benz
An IS 300 is just a pampered Toyota Camry with more attention to detail.

Actually, the ES300 is the Camry dressed up.

Quote:

Originally posted by Jr. Benz
I tip my hat to the man who drives a loaded Toyota Avalon. He parks the same car in his garage for $10,000 less than the man who buys the LS430.

In Canada, the Avalon retails for about $40-45,000, and the LS430 around $90,000. The Avalon is FWD and has a six cylinder.

The LS430 is an S-Class clone, but Toyota sells an amazing number of them. I have some wheel-time, and the LS430 is quite the car, but not calibrated like a Mercedes or BMW. It really replaces Cadillac as the premium "Luxury" car, as opposed to "Sports Luxury" car.

Lexus' marketing stays away from comparing their cars to BMW and Mercedes. They extoll their virtues, and keep to that.

The Lexus is made to very high standards, and the fit and finish are amazing. The interior is whisper quiet and the materials are first class.

But, the suspensions (even on the performance GS) are a little soft, and shock valving a little off to my tastes. The seats are soft and comfy around town, but not German firm for long haul high speed work.

Engine build quality is superb, and I have yet to see a Lexus V-8 with any mechanical problems, regardless of mileage. Transmissions are weaker. Unlike Mercedes, electrical component reliability seems top notch.

While the interior materials are rich and inviting, I've seen more than a few older cars where those soft luxurious panels have worn noticeably, unlike the robust stuff MB uses.

Resale value is a real weak point. Cripes, Lexus has developed a real quality reputation, and the stylized L caries weight. Why don't they hold their value? Well, fifth year ownership caries a penalty in high maintenance costs. Some engines require expensive timing belts, and five years service charges really add up. Many people ditch the cars just prior to this cash outlay. Savvy buyers factor this into the cost of purchase, and it supresses their value. Mercedes has no such reputation.

keithed · #17 01-21-2003, 07:19 PM

Pete

For the most part I do agree with your take on the Japenese cars vs the European cars. However having my first last and only Japenese car (1984 Toyota Celica GTS) with a 22R four cylinder engine, I can honestly say that 430,000 miles on the engine with only the valves adjusted every 30,000 is not bad for any auto. I then gave it my son who drove it another year or so before a friend totaled it out in a ditch. Another thing was the exhaust. When it was new I pulled the manifold off and converter and put a Tri-Y headers on and when I gave it to my son the original pipe and muffler were still intack.

Maintance on any vehicle (tune ups, oil change etc) will reward you with a vehicle that for the most part last a long long time.

Oh yes I forgot the front crank seal was replaced at about 300,000 plus miles. And yes I did replace the chain, gears and tensioner (all parrt of maintence).

Keith

Jr. Benz · #18 01-21-2003, 07:25 PM

To be honest, I am very grateful for japanese car manufactuers because they help make Mercedes-Benz what it is. If everyone drove a Mercedes I would not be a very passionate fan. And if Mercedes made cars to compete with Honda Accords and Toyota Corollas I would indeed dislike them. Part of Mercedes reputation comes from their rareity, another positive aspect of owning one. I like the fact that I have never seen a twin to my car. Although a 16V is a little more rare than the average MB, I rarely pass more than one Mercedes between 2 exits. On the average I pass about 5 Acura Integras and 10 Honda Accords.

Jr. Benz · #19 01-21-2003, 07:38 PM

Keithed-I am impressed with your Celica, but you are not the only person who has told a similar story defending Japanese cars. I totally agree with you in that any car that is properly maintained and cared for can last for a very long time. However, if I were to completely neglect my car I would buy a 240D over any Japanese car in the early 80's. Even if I am paying three times as much, $24,000 to an Accords $8,000 new in the early 80's. You could probably buy a lawnmower for more than $8,000. Today if I were to buy a NEW car and completely neglect it, I would still be buying a Mercedes over any Japanese car.

Jr. Benz · #20 01-21-2003, 09:20 PM

Those numbers are straight out of the December 2002 issue of Car & Driver, which has been very biased to Japanese cars in the past.

Jr. Benz · #21 01-21-2003, 09:22 PM

Actually, you don't have to post the numbers just let me know the magazine and the issue, I would like to see how much they differ from those of Car & Driver.

keithed · #22 01-21-2003, 09:36 PM

Pete

I was not defending any car only making a point. No other car that I have ever owned (which are many) compare to the Mercedes I own. Years ago the first time I rode and drove a MB, it was a 300E I was hooked. The smoothness, quiteness, and performance was like nothing I had ever experienced. It was a 1986 a beautiful green, and I was raking together every dime I could muster together, but fate would not have it be so. If you are a DIYer, the cost of ownership falls considerably. Regular maintenance such as new chain, tensioner, rails at 100,000 and new cap, rotor, wires, plugs etc will with regular oil and tranny service provide many more miles of service and pleasure.

The first thing I did was educate myself on MB problems and service at this fantastic forum we all belong to. The master techs and others that share their insights are the best to be found anywhere. God forbid but should you ever have a terrible crash would you really want to be in any other car.

Keith

STORMINORMAN · #23 01-22-2003, 12:40 PM

Having grown up in Ohio and seeing GM cars with their 5 mph bumpers rusted through completely after just three years on the road, I can certainly understand why one does not see many clean cars of any type driving around after a decade or so...

Out here where we don't put salt on the roads in the winter it is a lot more common to see cars 20, 30 and yes, even 40 years old, running around pretty much intact vis-a-vis rust-through type corrosion. And pickup trucks. Lots of VW Bugs, too.

The interior on my SVX was considered pretty snazzy 10 years ago. It is built like a tank (without weighing as much as an Abrams!) and is absolutely the vehicle you want to be in when it rains or snows and you want to go somewhere in a hurry. At twice the speed limit. Kinda' like a reliable 928 with all-wheel drive. In 10 years and almost 100K I've put less than $3,000 TOTAL into it (excluding gas & insurance) for maintenance and repairs, including a set of spare wheels & studded tires, two sets of summer tires, timing belt, transmission services, etc.

Jr. Benz: If your 2.3 16v top end goes South (Heavens forbid!) you'll just about pay that for the parts.

I truly love my 420SEL. As a sedan it has & does everything I could imagine wanting. I can perform most of the routine maintenance myself. If I won a Lexus LS 430, a Jag, an Infinity, BMW, or any of those overpriced "luxury" SUV's, etc. in a contest I would sell it in an instant and pay off my house instead. A new Corvette or Cayenne I would just have to keep.

We are probably looking at the last generation of Americans to still have a real choice when it comes to cars & trucks.

Jr. Benz · #24 01-22-2003, 12:58 PM

Actually about a year ago I burned an exhaust valve. After having the head ripped off and the valve guides pulled, I had to have a custom made valve guide because when the mechanic was removing one of them he took some of the head with it. The hole had to be bored out and there was no replacement size for this guide because in an effort to salvage a defective head, Cosworth bored one of the holes too large and used the biggest replacement size for this particular guide. After having all of the valves, valve guides, one custom made guide, hoses, seals, chain, gaskets, shims, breather hose, and a water pump replaced the total for parts was $1400 and the labor charge was $1700. Total of $3100, definitely a bit expensive, but if this wasn't a Euro 16V that may have been a little more than I would have been willing to pay.

keithed · #25 01-22-2003, 03:56 PM

Pete

How many miles did you have on the clock at the time you did all this work?

Keith

Jr. Benz · #26 01-22-2003, 06:38 PM

206,000 Miles