How much is to much when it comes to a stereo? - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

#1 03-05-2003, 08:34 PM

How much is to much when it comes to a stereo? Just figured I would ask you guys what you think. I know a lot of this seems to depend on age but still there is a point that it's just to much. My friend had (dad took it away because of sound violations) a MATTS 1400 RMS watt amp and 2 MATTS 15s It got to the point the truck was shaking apart and you could hear non of the highs because of the bass.

Erikir · #2 03-06-2003, 12:35 AM

It's too much when the maximum volume of the system exceeds the maximum volume you would listen to.

The power is irrelevant in an unbalanced system. The larger the 'dead' spots in the sound spectrum, the worse the system will sound.

zla39fj · #3 03-06-2003, 02:03 AM

If it makes them happier to but Focal instead of Pioneer, Kenwood or Infinity let them. I am certain that a quality sound system can be put into most Mercedes Benz automobiles for less than $600 in equipment. Installation can be pricey and you do not always get what you pay for. Just do a search on Circuit City and Best Buy and you will see that. Your best bet is to find a friend that is knowledgeable and willing to spend the time to maximize the potential of your audio gear. That is my final answer.

Robert Davis · #4 03-06-2003, 09:34 AM

I think that stereo components are similar to horsepower or for that matter collections, etc. These things are all hobbies that please the individual. Does anyone really need a stereo that the whole neighborhood can hear? Does anyone really need 600 horsepower to go to work everyday? Does anyone really need over 5,000 books? (my problem) We all express ourselves in unique ways. This is probably not the answer you are looking for!
Robert Davis

rickg · #5 03-06-2003, 10:28 AM

My motto:
If loud is good, louder is better.

One of my T-shirts:
If it's too loud, you're too old.
My car stereo isn't up to what I'd like. We've discussed my home stereo before. It's LOUD. Big. Bad. And I just added new speakers and another 200 watts to it over the weekend. I literally frighten teenagers out of the room with it.

G-Benz · #6 03-06-2003, 11:19 AM

In spL competitions, the current record is somewhere below 175 dB. This is obviously not a healthy aural environment, as permanent ear damage I believe is anything above 120 dB.

Note that contestants are competing for maximum sound pressure, and not sound quality.
The vehicles are devoid of anything but subwoofers, and the laws of physics dictate that it's easier to achieve their goal with a small cabin volume. So many are barely driveable (just to the judging stand), devoid of cavities, doors and windows that are bolted shut, chassis reinforced to reduce body flex so the cabin does not expand when the sound kicks in, and generally limited to room for a typical two-seater (although the seats may not be installed). Needless to say, the system is operated remotely from outside the vehicle.

The rest of the vehicle houses the multiple subwoofers, the super amps to drive them, and
the plethora of batteries to power everything. Many run two or three 250-amp alternators in tandem just to supply enough juice to feed it all!

I don't even think they play music in competition, but a generated tone. Again, this is an spL competition, so the bragging right allude to something like, "I can push the most air in this vehicle with my stereo system than anyone else."

I got pretty deeply involved in car audio competitions in my 20's, much of it when no one really knew how to sanction the contests, before CAN and IASCA were formed. Much of what is on the shelf today had to be hand fabricated back then.

I have never competed with anything over 300 watts, as power and $$$ requirements are exponential when it comes to achieving loudness. If the rest of the components were efficient, this could be done nicely at that power level.

Others that I traveled with to competitions did sport thousand-watt systems. Not only was it painful to hear, it taxed everything in the vehicle...windshields popped out, trunk lid ribs split at the weld seams, body skirts vibrated themselves lose, alternators fried, etc.

I am nearly 20 years older than I was when I competed, and I am perfectly satisfied with the volume levels of the OEM systems in my MBs.

But I also have years of enduring even more excessive volume levels playing in bands for several years. Even the church band I play in gets pretty loud on stage, so I really don't need to flood my eardrums every time I drive...

rickg · #7 03-06-2003, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by 123c
What did you add to get another 200 watts? Did you find another Marantz amp?

I upgraded my 12"s and put my other 200watt Hafler in driving those. Now running my H-K reciever at 210 Watts total, my DH550 Halfler at 225W/channel and the DH 200 at 100 w/channel. It's loud and clean as a bell.

You can hear things you didn't know were in the music, and a few that aren't, like things crashing in the kitchen cupboards

The Marantz hasn't made it back into the system yet, but soon

Kuan · #8 03-06-2003, 03:57 PM

You are much better off getting higher efficiency speakers than a high powered amp. This is for a coupla reasons. A doubling of power will only provide you with 3db gain, so for example, if you can get 106db at 400 watts, you will get only 109db at 800 watts.

To make matters worse, at lower frequencies like 30hz, a 110db rumble has the same "loudness" as a 1000hz tone at 90db! This is due to the reduced sensitivity of human hearing at those frequencies. So, for example, if your speaker sensitivity is 90db, which means if you send a 1000hz tone through your speaker at 1 watt, it will be 90db loud. Every time you double the wattage you get 3db, so to drive a 90db efficient speaker to 105db it will take 32 watts. Assuming the speaker is also 90db efficient at 30hz, it will take 32 watts to make your speaker spit out 105db. But in order to make it SOUND like 105db you actually need the speaker to produce around 125db! This means you need about 4000 watts! And this is with a relatively efficient speaker!

4000 watts, and 105db isn't really THAT loud!

G-Benz · #9 03-06-2003, 04:18 PM

Kuan speaks the truth!

When attempting to procure a high-watt amp, the REAL purpose should be for "headroom", not loudness.

Getting efficient speakers is the first order of business. But even with that, some demanding musical information will have signal peaks that will tax lesser-powered amps. The result is that the signal will be "clipped"...that is, "truncated" or "leveled-off" into square waveforms. Prolonged broadcasting of square waveforms overheats speaker voice coils into failure (not to mention it sounds awful!).

A more powerful amp is better equipped to handle such signals without clipping because it has the "headroom" to do so. A 1000-watt "peak" signal will not harm a speaker designed to handle 200 watts, but a prolonged "100-watt" clipped signal will!

Read the specs when shopping...it is misleading when they tout "total max power" versus "total continuous power". That's how less-expensive home theater receivers appear to have more impressive specs than they really do.

rickg · #10 03-06-2003, 04:42 PM

Many audio amp (auto & home) companies rate the output of their amps at 1000 khz, which may or may not be what they can put out at low bass frequencies. They can make their amps seem better than they are this way I guess. Need to look at an output curve across the frequency range, and preferably at RMS, NOT peak. (That's why I'm using Haflers for my home amps. They have a very flat output curve, and are known to be workhorses with oodles of headroom. It takes alot to make them clip. By then any small animals nearby are out cold.)
Unfortunately I think most auto amps are way over rated, and they don't like to post output curves and wattage at RMS. Someone posted a web site a few months ago when we were talking amps that gave true specs for different amps. Surprising how much misleading advertisement there is. ( or maybe not surprising

)

rickg · #11 03-07-2003, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by rickg
Someone posted a web site a few months ago when we were talking amps that gave true specs for different amps.

Here it is:
http://www.angelfire.com/vt/audio/table.html

mikemover · #12 03-09-2003, 02:38 PM

Depends on how much money that quality sound is worth to YOU, and what you can afford.

I've put together a pretty nice "mutt" of a system in my SD...No real super high-end components, but all good stuff (Alpine, JBL, Kenwood, Sony, etc.) in a well-balanced package. I like volume, but not at the expense of sound quality and smooth, flat frequency response. What's the point of all that power if you have nothing but low end? That doesn't sound good.

I've got 3 amps totalling 975 watts--One amp for the 10" sub, one for the rear speakers, one for the front. My Alpine head unit has 6 RCA outputs with an adequate built-in crossover and sub-level control. I got several of the components using the "barter system", so I don't have all that much $$ invested, and it sounds great.

Mike

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