SUVs support terrorism - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Peyton300TD · #1 03-20-2003, 01:02 PM

I know this subject has been broached once or twice already... but i wanted to do it more directly.

Have you seen the two commercials suggesting that SUVs wasteful consumption of fuel is linked to our dependency on foreign oil suppliers, and consequently that money is going to hands of terrorists, the same ones that were involved in 9-11.

If not, check them out. Here is the link to watch the ads: (you need real player to view them unfortuantely)

http://www.thedetroitproject.com/ads/default.htm

In my opinion, the ads do a good job of drawing a complicated link between the excessive fuel consumption related to SUVs and our nation's security. The question though, is are these ads ethical? Should SUV owners be attacked so directly? Certainly they are not making a conscious decision to support terrorism. At the same time though, if they saw the relationship between spending $40 at the gas pump to fill up a monster, would they be more cognizant of their next vehicle purchase?

If one person switched from an car to an SUV for a year, it would be the equivalent of keeping a refrigerator door open for 6 years!

Don't get me wrong, my dream car is a land rover... but I am quite shocked at how strong the link between our outrageous SUV craze and oil consumption. What do you think?

Eric

MTI · #2 03-20-2003, 01:19 PM

Sounds like another version of "Seven Degrees of Kevin Bacon." You can draw a line from a point to any point if you got enough points.

Ashman · #3 03-20-2003, 02:18 PM

the interesting thing is that most of the oil in the U.S. does not come from the persian gulf.

I know that most of the oil we get here on the west coast, comes from south america.

The problem is that the news is always looking for ways to get people's attention, big bold flashy headlines, etc etc get our attention. so by them saying SUV's support terrorism, generates a lot of interest in this bold statement.

I for one do not agree that SUV's support terrorism, based on actual facts of where most of our oil comes from.

Alon

Peyton300TD · #4 03-20-2003, 02:27 PM

good points...

but factually our number one source of oil is the US itself providing 34%

#2 is the middle east
#3 is mexico
#4 is canada

if you think the link is between SUVs and terrorism is cloudy think about it this way...

if SUV owners gave up their vehicles for cars, we would save 1 million barrels of oil a day... and right now we import 740,000 barrels from the middle east each day. therefore, the middle east would no longer be our biggest foreign dependency on oil... our ties to them would be lesser... the money we give to them would most certainly not end up in the purchase of weapons and terrorism.

i see your points, but the facts pose a convincing argument. afterall... there is really no need for SUVs the way we use them... if we were all smarter about our driving habits our wasteful oil consumption would diminish, no?

eric

Peyton300TD · #5 03-20-2003, 02:28 PM

oh.. i forgot... the amount of oil used to produce plastic far exceeds what we use in vehicles. perhaps this should have been a campaign on reducing plastic use?

eric

420SEL · #6 03-20-2003, 02:30 PM

That means SUV drivers are indirectly supporting Canadians. Not that there is anything wrong with that, but from now on next time an SUV driver complains about something a Canadian did we'll just turn it around on them and say "you made it possible."

Ashman · #7 03-20-2003, 02:41 PM

But is all that oil we are importing being used in SUV's? I don't think so. we use oil for more than just cars and SUV's, machinery, production plants, planes, trains, boats, you name it.

THe actual amount of oil used in cars and SUV's is onlya fraction of the oil that we use.

Like I said, most oil on the west coast form what I have learned is from south america.

Alon

Peyton300TD · #8 03-20-2003, 03:01 PM

hahaha, jason that's hysterical!

Alon you're right. notice i just posted that most of our oil is used for plastics. surely we could conserve and be more efficient in many different areas. so why pick on SUVs? i don't know... but seems like they pose more problems than just supporting terrorism to me... they're wasteful, they are significant contributers to global warming, they're dangerous to their occupants and other motorists, and they're hard to see around. how can it hurt to pick on something that provides little value as is?

eric

BENZ-LGB · #9 03-20-2003, 03:58 PM

Ditto to what SPOCK and Paul C wrote.

My wife avarages over 16 mpg on her Yukon. My daughter and I cannot do better than 20 mpg on our 420SEL and 300TE, respectively. The two Benzes use premium fuel. Therefore, pound for pound, the Yukon is more economical than the Benzes.

Does that mean that we should get rid of the Benzes. Mon dieu!

Peyton300TD · #10 03-20-2003, 04:02 PM

Paul, good points!

Im not suggesting that we all go out and buy a toyota prius and neither is Arianna. All she's saying is get something that gets on average 3mpg better at LEAST... and there you have a lot of options, not just a prius or an insight... lord knows id never own either of those.

for your space needs... most midsize cars and station wagons have more cubic space than your expedition.

for your 4wd needs Mercedes, Volvo, Volkswagen, BMW, Audi, and Subaru all make excellent 4wd cars. how about one of those gorgeous Audi All-road wagons with the nice beefy fenders and dual exhaust... they average 24mpg. in snow and ice your chances of losing control are a lot less in one of these vehicles as well. and if you do lose control your chances of injury are far less because of rollover. simply, these 4wd cars are much more agile.

also... these car companies offer tow packages that can meet most boat and trailer needs. take this into account- my 1985 mercedes 300TDT is diesel and has what 120hp? and i tow a giant 25 foot sailboat that wieghs over 2,000lbs with no problem or safety comprimise.

keep your expedition if you like it im not in any way saying you should sell it.. im just arguing your points for owning an SUV. and you do make good points.

as for tractor trailers... they are quite efficient and normally get over a million miles on their fuel efficient diesel engines..

YES YES YEs you are right, SUV manufacturers should make their engines more fuel efficient... one way of doing that would be by putting 4 valves per cylinder- allowing more torque for towing and better mpg. yet most are still using antiquated and inefficient 2 valve engines.

eric

Peyton300TD · #11 03-20-2003, 04:10 PM

BENZ-LGB

okay.. so the benz's are not much more fuel efficient than the SUV.. 4mpg right? all the US needs is 3mpg more efficiency to lose the middle east as a dependency on oil.

aside from that, your wife's Yukon emits 6 times as much smog cuasing pollution per mile as your mercedes. also the yukon emits 28lbs of carbon dioxide for every gallon of gas it burns... whereas the mercedes emits only 18lbs.

why does she need an SUV?

EPA Adminstrator Christine Todd Whitman and Energy Secretary Spencer Abraham are close to saying that fuel efficiency is a patriotic duty. According to Abraham, “Reducing our nation’s dependence on imported oil is crucial to our national energy security, now more than ever before (Boston Globe 12 OCT01).”

eric

Peyton300TD · #12 03-20-2003, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SP0CK
"#2 is the middle east"

No this is not true, Venezuella is #2 from what I've been told. AND what % is middle east?

oh.. i forgot... the amount of oil used to produce plastic far exceeds what we use in vehicles. perhaps this should have been a campaign on reducing plastic use?

eric

Exactly eric, you see they can tie the facts to anything they want. The whole issue is just prattle.

SPOCK, we get 11% of our oil from the middle east, primarily Saudi Arabia. unfortunately.

Clearly there are things that more directly support terrorist activity than SUVs, or even dependence on foreign oil for that matter. Perhaps the link between owning an SUV and supporting terrorist activity isn’t the most direct and clear, but maybe that’s not what is most important.

So why pick on SUVs? Americans are victims of our own wasteful habits, one of those being our love affair with SUVs that has definitely become a blatant problem; especially considering they offer no real value. When posed with the puzzle of encouraging Americans to shy away from purchasing SUVs, we realize it is a daunting task. Of all the potential arguments against SUVs, Arianna thought that, given the growing fear of terrorism every American currently shares, and the fact that a link between SUV use and terrorism can be made, why not take advantage of this particular opportunity.

By informing non-owners and making current owners realize they could possibly be somewhat responsible for contributing to terrorist activity, The Detroit Project has brilliantly created an insecurity that won’t die. Let’s think about it fairly; really, what harm is this campaign doing? At the end of the day, it’s really only pissing off a small percent of SUV owners. Which is good. Because, at the same time, the campaign is generating healthy debate and awareness of important issues.

Peyton300TD · #13 03-20-2003, 05:52 PM

CJ, wasn't this your SUV? no TLJ that day, hey?

eric

4NDELIT · #14 03-20-2003, 06:15 PM

I really didn't read much of this thread, but I saw the ads that were linked. I think it's funny, because most suv's get the same mileage as my 450SL... does that mean I support terrorists? Should everyone trade in their cars and buy hybrid's?

Ashman · #15 03-20-2003, 06:21 PM

my dad has an SUV, what does he use it for? Towing our 5500lb boat.

Other than that, he uses it when he wants to pickup lots of things at costco, or when he goes to a plant nursery to pick up flower and such for the garden.

He has the suv for some good reasons.

Too bad too many People have SUV's for allt he wrong reasons. My favorite being because I can see over the other cars.

Most SUV's never see off road use, or towing use as they should.

For people that live where it snows, all I have to say is you have every right to own an SUV.

I just hate people who buy SUV's and don't use them for anything other than normal driving.

I personally would have an SUV, if I had a need for one. but since my needs are just driving around town and on road trips, there is no need for me to have one.

I think all SUV's like the expedition, excursion, yukon etc, should come with diesel engines. They would get better gas mileage, and newer diesel engines by ford and GM, have plenty of pep and torque to get you up to speed quickly.

The problem is that too many SUV's have big gas guzzling engines, when they should have big diesel engines.

Alon