Old homes? - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

rickg · #16 10-18-2003, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kuan
like lead solder, lead paint, wet basement, insufficient amps (which I assume you can fix yourself) old city pipes, old septic on the property, old well, leaky roofs, out of plumb chimneys, rotten subfloors, out of code and illegal wiring, man... the list just goes on.

Yeah. This is stuff we've talked about. I saw an a newspaper article awhile ago about the wiring in old homes. Alot of people can't even get home owners insurance I guess. And the lead paint thing kinda worries me too. I can get the wiring fixed, but getting rid of lead paint, and asbestos if it's there, would escalate the costs alot.
You all have given me alot of good stuff to think about here. I'm making a "for & against" list. Like I said before, it would be awesome to find a house that the worst stuff has already been taken care of. I have been checking real estate listings in that area, and once in awhile one shows up with all or most of the upgrades taken care of, for not a whole lot more than a house that hasn't. We've decided we won't be in a hurry. If we have to, we'll just rent for awhile until the right place comes along.

kerry · #17 10-18-2003, 09:46 PM

Unless your into eating paint chips or chipping away at the insulation on your pipes in your spare time, I wouldn't worry about asbestos and lead paint.
I would worry about knob and tube wiring and old septics and wells.

rickg · #18 10-19-2003, 12:34 AM

That'd be cool to have our own poltergeist

rickg · #19 10-19-2003, 01:27 PM

Actually, we did talk some about that too. Everytime we go over to see our friends in Chelan, I think to myself that I could live there. Chelan is a nice little town. I haven't really seen enough of Wenatchee to have an opinion either way, but asume it's like Chelan, only more bigger.
We also like the N. East corner of Oregon, like LeGrande and Baker City.
But we decided if we're going to move, that we want to be near some part of family. Going to Utah would work great with all the relatives I and my wife have there. Also, most of my wifes immediate family have moved to Las vegas, including her folks. So it would put us within a 1 day drive to them. And I already have a couple job leads in the Ogden area(N. of Salt Lake City)

rickg · #20 10-19-2003, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by kerry edwards
Unless your into eating paint chips or chipping away at the insulation on your pipes in your spare time, I wouldn't worry about asbestos and lead paint.
I would worry about knob and tube wiring and old septics and wells.

I'm not sure just how much lead paint and asbestos in a house actually is a bad thing. If I just don't lick the walls or insulation, I probably won't start growing a third eye.

But yeah, that post & knob wiring would be something I'd have fixed before we would even move in. Most of the areas we're looking at have the houses on sewer and city water, so that shouldn't be an issue. But rotten and calcified water pipes would be.

rickg · #21 10-19-2003, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by narwhal
My wife and I bought a one-owner home that was built in 1928. We have had a lot of updating to do, and some foundation and plaster work. I enjoy doing the stuff myself, and it has been a great investment where we live.

Holy cow! A one owner 1928 home? Wow!

Lebenz · #22 10-20-2003, 12:49 PM

Buyer beware is imperative.

almost 2 years ago I almost bought a place that needed a lot of work – roof, insulation between the roof and living space, carpets, heater, new kitchen, new bathroom, new floors, new fireplace, insulation under the floor, new water heater, fixes to the decking, siding, and painting. The wires were okay, to my surprise, but made of aluminum….The house was 25 years old and had 0 maintenance since new.

I went to Home Despot, added the numbers and found that the cost of renovation was staggering. I don’t have my notes, but it was around $30 to $50K for all the stuff, not counting potentially years of labor to do the work. Worse yet, you couldn’t amortize the cost of the fix up – it was all outta pocket. After that, I added the cost of the fix up to a house I was looking for.......and ended up buying a bigger 4 year old house instead. Not only do I have 0 fix-up issues (okay, it’s a house there are always minor ones) but the total cost was less than the purchase price plus the fix up price. Better yet, the future value of the house i bought is greater than the fix-up...even after the fix-ups!.

A house is almost the same story as a car, just more expensive. You get what you pay for. BTW, Utah homes all but demand latest generation insulation, heating and air conditioning, unless you want to pay substantially to heat and cool the ever extreme temperatures.

rbn3 · #23 10-20-2003, 01:28 PM

Four things to consider:
1) Houses built or modified in a certain era (~1930-60) have potential environmental concerns. Asbestos and lead paint are two big ones. Radon can affect houses of any age. Supertight "new" houses with alot of plastic might be a bigger problem - not known yet. Lead pipes are so old that they are completely lime lined - probably not a hazard. An inspection is mandatory.
2) Houses in the 10+ year category are as old as their replacement cycle. Roofs generally last 10-30 years depending on design and climate. Furnaces are a 20 year item, ac probably shorter. Appliances are also in the 10-20 year area. Windows is another category to consider, as is landscaping. Old homes with mature landscaping may add value that cannot be replaced easily.
3) Home design trends vary by time. The "great room/kitchen" is a relatively modern concept that is very popular. Kitchens are very expensive to redo.
4) Taxes: old homes in old neighborhoods are generally in a heterogeneous setting - lots of variation in size and value. Newer homes are more likely to be cookie cutter designs. If you plan to stay in the home a long time - buy in the high end of an old neighborhood. This contradicts the old saw "buy the cheapest house in an expensive neighborhood." The old saw is right over the short run. But in the long run, the inflated assessed valuation of the "cheap" house will cost alot in taxes compared to the "depressed" valuation of a nicer home amongst modest neighboring structures. In other words you may get more house for your tax dollar in an older neighborhood. Also, many states have exemptions for "homestead improvements" i.e., a grace period where no taxes are paid on new additions, new garages, etc. You can get that "great room" or three car garage (preferred) tax deferred in some places.

G-Benz · #24 10-20-2003, 02:08 PM

Our first home was a 1939 Tudor style..."gingerbread" style houses in that neighborhood.

Ours had a brick facing and brick first floor but the rest was stucco. That needs painting.

The interior had been renovated by a coupe of interior decorator prior to our ownership, so other than wear and tear touchups, the interior was pretty nice.

The biggest investment was upgrades. I had the electricals redone, newer bathroom and lighting fixtures, and upgraded climate control units.

Also, the driveway (or what was left of it) appeared to be original. That was redone with an aggregate effect...turned out very nice!

It was a charming house and we had our daughter while we lived there, so there were many memories that are left in that house. I never got to finish all of the projects I wanted to do (and believe me, there are ALWAYS projects), but we moved to Texas.

We sold the house for nearly twice what we paid for it when we moved five years later, but with all of the home improvement loans I took out, we broke even with but a couple of thou left over.

Truthfully, our payments on our new home equal what we paid on the old plus additional loans)...and our current home has over double the living space! Add to that all of the upgraded features, efficient technology and such...the utility costs are about equal.

So it works out the same way as would the choice of buying a new car versus restoring an old classic...you can easily spend more than the cost of new, so it's more of a labor of love, than a choice investment...but I would do it all over again!

We have a second older home in my wife's hometown...it's in need of some TLC as well...and so the ball is rolling!

rickg · #25 10-20-2003, 02:40 PM

Thanks Lebenz, rbn3, and G-

One other thing that has kind of led up to this decision for buying an old home, is that I've given up most all of my many hobbies, for various reasons. I'm in the process of getting rid of lot's of "stuff". My interests are changing I guess. But the wife and I have found a whole new area of common interest in home decorating and antiques. It's something that we really connect together in. We spend some of the funnest times together that we've had since we got married 24 years ago, wandering the antique stores, or buying a new table lamp, picking a color to paint the room, ect, ect.
So, if we can find that just-right place we'll snag it. If not, well, we'll buckle and find something new with an adaptable layout and design. You guys have given a great list of things to look for and consider. It'll give us a good idea of what we want when we sit down with the real estate agent.

#26 10-21-2003, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lebenz
Buyer beware is imperative.

almost 2 years ago I almost bought a place that needed a lot of work – roof, insulation between the roof and living space, carpets, heater, new kitchen, new bathroom, new floors, new fireplace, insulation under the floor, new water heater, fixes to the decking, siding, and painting. The wires were okay, to my surprise, but made of aluminum….The house was 25 years old and had 0 maintenance since new.

I went to Home Despot, added the numbers and found that the cost of renovation was staggering. I don’t have my notes, but it was around $30 to $50K for all the stuff, not counting potentially years of labor to do the work. Worse yet, you couldn’t amortize the cost of the fix up – it was all outta pocket. After that, I added the cost of the fix up to a house I was looking for.......and ended up buying a bigger 4 year old house instead. Not only do I have 0 fix-up issues (okay, it’s a house there are always minor ones) but the total cost was less than the purchase price plus the fix up price. Better yet, the future value of the house i bought is greater than the fix-up...even after the fix-ups!.

A house is almost the same story as a car, just more expensive. You get what you pay for. BTW, Utah homes all but demand latest generation insulation, heating and air conditioning, unless you want to pay substantially to heat and cool the ever extreme temperatures.

Lebenz, dilapidated houses can be a deal if the price is right, and you are willing to do much of the work yourself. My place is much like you described above, it literally needed everything, and there still remains a few expensive projects to complete. The caveat is to always do the homework to make sure that the place is indeed going to pay you back when it's done. The benefit is that you own a house that is exactly as you want it to look

The house I'm living in now, the previous owner ran a no kill animal shelter out of it. She literally let the dogs take over half of the house. The smell in this place was enough to scare off anybody, let alone the repair list. I do remember not having that euphoric feeling of having something new when I finished signing off on the paperwork for this place, unlike my first house that I had already been living in as a rentor for nine months.

Back to this place, I took over what was a $51K loan. I have spent around $30K on the place to get it to where it is now. I've replaced drywall, wall insulation, house wrap, siding, entire kitchen, all new floors, all new baseboards, new exterior doors, some new interior doors, new hot water heater, new HVAC system, put up vinyl siding (yes I mentioned siding twice), as well as the requisite painting and supplies.

I've since started the process of refinancing my house. The appraisal came back at $118,500. This is with the place still needing a roof, windows, gutters and downspouts, as well as all new attic insulation, and finally major exterior landscaping. I've owned the place three years.

Zeus · #27 10-21-2003, 12:09 PM

rickg - I owned and ran a general contracting business while in university a few years ago. I did mainly roofing but also renovations. What I can add is that many older homes are really solidly built - real 2x10 joists, strong roofs and solid, solid walls. So you basically can get a really strong house to begin with. Many of the older roofs I've seen are actually 1x6 tongue and groove pine decking on 16" centred joists instead of the 3/8" ply on 24" joists you see now. Those old roofs could support a car, modern ones shake and bend when you walk on them. Same with walls. Modern floor and ceiling joists are I-joists. Older houses often have true 2x10 beams.

However, there are a lot of caveats - lead paint (ever try and remove paint with a high lead content...not fun, it's invincible...belt sander time), decaying wiring, ungrounded circuits, etc. Often with renovations on older homes, problems crop up that were unforeseen. This ALWAYS occurs - count on it. You remove the drywall from a wall only to find a hidden door underneath it, etc.

I personally prefer many of the older styles and build quality of older homes but I'd really, really get the home well inspected before I bought it. I'd also fully plan and detail any and all renovations to determine whether or not it fits my budget and then add 20-25% for "unforeseen events".

Good luck!

Lebenz · #28 10-21-2003, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Diesel Power
Lebenz, dilapidated houses can be a deal if the price is right, and you are willing to do much of the work yourself.

While not afraid of sweat equity, in the end, the place I referenced above would have literally been more work than it’s worth. Plus, by the use of my and my SO’s labor, it would have taken years of weekend work to make enjoyable. While I was willing, able, and even signed the buy/sell papers, late in the process I found that the roof leaked in several places. The owner first denied it, and then, when presented with irrefutable evidence, refused to come down on the price, nor would he fix the roof. Ug. At that point I backed out.

As fate had it, about a week after backing out, we saw a really nice place for sale about 3 blocks distant from the first choice. Since I did my home work and knew the add-on costs of the never-maintained place, it was an easy decision to buy the newbie place. The rest is happy history.

The point being there are many opportunities in house buying. While I could justify the time spent fixing the place up over about 2-3 years, there was simply a better solution a few blocks away. It gets down to what one can or is willing afford, and weather one finds utility in adding sweat equity. Again, just like a car but more $$ involved.

kerry · #29 10-21-2003, 01:11 PM

Just like a car. Don't spend 20k restoring an 88 Yugo. Spend 5k restoring a 57 Jaguar XK140.

Kuan · #30 10-21-2003, 01:21 PM

You know, plumbing looks easy but it's in fact the most frustrating thing in the world. Probably on par with VW pancake engine repair. There's a reason why plumbers make the big bucks, and it's not crack.