MedMech.. I know what Piotr meant, I was just teasing him.:p

No gun deer season opens next weekendand I don't hunt with the gun too much anyway. I don't take my Quad hunting, that's for removing deer from the woods that are unable to do it themselves

Hey Vronsky, I thought you might find this interesting.


http://www.techcentralstation.com/030303D.html

Editor's note: Recently the French government complained of a concerted effort within the United States that sought to damage the French by, according to the International Herald Tribune, "accusing Paris of providing military and diplomatic aid to Iraq." TCS herewith reprints an article from Melana Vickers that we believe sheds relevant light on the complaints.

As France's political leaders feign high-mindedness in their opposition to waging war in Iraq, could it be that a little-publicized threat of blackmail - issued by none other than Saddam Hussein a year after France sided with the United States in the first Gulf War - weighs ever so slightly in the back of their minds?

The threat by the Iraqi leader, published here for the first time in English, was reported in a 1992 French book, now out of print, titled "Notre Allié Saddam" (Our Ally Saddam). Here's what Saddam said:


As for financiers, industrialists and above all those responsible for military industry, the question must be put to French politicians: Who did not benefit from these business contracts and relationships with Iraq? . . . With respect to the politicians, one need only refer back to the declarations of all the political parties of France, Right and Left. All were happy to brag about their friendship with Iraq and to refer to common interests. From Mr. Chirac [now the center-right president] to Mr. Chevenement [the socialist former defense minister] . . . politicians and economic leaders were in open competition to spend time with us and flatter us. We have now grasped the reality of the situation [of France's support for the 1991 Gulf War, a betrayal in Saddam's eyes]. If the trickery continues, we will be forced to unmask them, all of them, before the French public.

Author-journalists Claude Angeli and Stéphanie Mesnier had prompted this response by asking Saddam about financial ties between his regime and French industrialists and politicians, specifically inquiring: "Has Iraq financially supported French politicians and political parties?"

It's a query that has come up periodically in the French press, and been hotly denied by French politicians. Reporters such as Angeli, and others at newspapers such as Le Monde, Libération, and La Tribune, have documented tangential links, but are still searching for a smoking gun. And, in an outcome that has become a traditional feature of French corruption investigations - such as the 1998 parliamentary inquiry into the role of French oil companies in the country's foreign policy, as well as a 2001 judicial inquiry into political-party financing - few whistle-blowers have turned up, let alone paper trails.

What is known is this: French businesses, led by the oil conglomerates, established warm and profitable relationships with Iraq's Ba'athist regime dating back to the 1970s, when Iraq ditched Anglo-American companies and nationalized its oil industry. Again, after the 1991 Gulf War, French companies moved aggressively into the business channels opened up by the U.N.'s oil-for-food deal with Iraq. France's defense industry has also profited from sales to Iraq. What's the difference between this and, say, past U.S. commercial ties to Baghdad? The socialist economic model that links both France and Iraq: As is widely documented, few business deals between the state-controlled conglomerates are made without heavy massaging by French politicians.

So, if there's something to the line of questioning about financial support from Baghdad to Paris - and decades of cozy relations among leading politicians certainly suggests it's worth finding out - then what could be worse for France's top political dogs than to be outed by Saddam himself?

He has threatened to expose all ties if they should betray him by supporting war again. Lo and behold, France's leaders continue to oppose disarming Saddam by force, even as their stance meets criticism from their own backbenchers and harms France's relations with its European neighbors.

The trouble with this appeasement strategy - if indeed the French pols are hiding something - is that they'll probably get caught anyway. After Saddam is ousted from Baghdad, the dissidents who take power are sure to open up the country's archives, East Germany-style, and expose any complicity and impropriety that oiled the channels between France and the Iraqi ancien régime.

Better for the French ruling class to come clean now. That's the only way it can salvage any dignity at all.

A version of this article first appeared in the Weekly Standard.

"What is known is this: French businesses, led by the oil conglomerates, established warm and profitable relationships with Iraq's Ba'athist regime dating back to the 1970s,"

And the U.S. is getting flak that our invasion was ONLY to get the oil!
x 100

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'68 220D(another one)
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Current rides:
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Correlation isn't necessarily causation. These arguments can work for both sides.

My opinion? (as if anyone cares). Their all dirty, after all they're all politicians. Funny France was motivated to oppose war for the same reasons we were motivated to go.

What if we hold these "coincidences" to the same stringent criteria you use for the administration's coincidences Botnst? Can we rely on a statement from Saddam the Woodchipper? After we couldn't believe in 1990, 1991, etc.

No hard feelings Botnst but I kind of thought this might be an oppurtune subject to consider some of your past arguments.

No offense taken and you make a good point. As you say, in both directions.

The article is taken from a book by some French authors who make a buck off of scandal mongering. I'd certainly take it with a grain (a pound) of salt. I think the de Vilipain and Chriac were terrible opportunists and duplicitously undercut Powell. They sucked Schroeder in for enough to embarrass him. I think Schroeder has come to realize that if they'll mistreat two allies so badly they wont hesitate to mistreat a third.

But I don't think Chirac was in any sense in bed with Saddam. Chirac is a coelenterate, not a cestode.

Also, Saddam's public pronouncements I'd totally ignore--the guy was evil.

But the paperwork of the bureaucracy--ahh that's where truth will be found. You can fabricate a shallow facade, but a detailed trail through various levels of government is impossible to either create and to conceal. It will take a lot of sifting and a ot of analysis to get a clear picture of what that oufit actually did and didn't do. I suspect that the Bush adminstration will get either hung or re-elected based to a great degree on how well corroborated his pre-war interpretation of intelligence is with actuall Iraqi paperwork.

If I knew what a coelentrate or a cestode was I might have something to offer but alas I am trumped again by the superior vocabulary skills (and probably intellect) of the Botnst.

I'm heading to dictionary.com. I'll be back when I begin to overestimate my debate skills again. Thanks for the measured reply.

Thanks Botnst, interesting yes, ...but perhaps not in the way you think. Did you also read the other article on 'Old Europe's duplicity'?
Here's a quote:

"...Indeed, both Chirac and Schroeder have misled their citizens about the threat that Iraq poses. Despite knowing the reality of Saddam Hussein's weapons of mass destruction, they continued to put the onus on the Bush administration to proving that he had any..."

Now what were you saying again....

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2011 Prius

From my marine aquarium days.

Since a cestode is a parasitic flatworm (aka planaria) and a coelentrate is an anemone (cnidarian) then that roughly translates to Chirac being someone who sucks others in and eats them as opposed to a parasite who feeds off of others?!?!? I'm sorry if my hamfisted interpretation does not do your statement justice. I see the short yellow bus pulling up for me outside, gotta go.

Cool thing about coelenterates is that they $hit through their mouths, or eat with their rectums, depending on the use at the moment.

Cestodes are usually internal parasites that live off the lifeblood of their host.

If that's the case, then the French and others were just arguing semantics instead of concerning themselves with the bottom line of the matter at hand, and that makes their position even WORSE!

Mike

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1979 300 SD
350,000 miles
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1982 300D-gone---sold to a buddy
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1985 300TD
270,000 miles
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1994 E320
not my favorite, but the wife wanted it

www.myspace.com/mikemover
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France and Germany had two of THE LARGEST oil contracts with Saddam, and our little war interrupted the flow, and inconvenienced them. THAT is why the "war for oil" mantra coming from them is pathetic, at best.

Mike

__________________
_____
1979 300 SD
350,000 miles
_____
1982 300D-gone---sold to a buddy
_____
1985 300TD
270,000 miles
_____
1994 E320
not my favorite, but the wife wanted it

www.myspace.com/mikemover
www.myspace.com/openskystudio
www.myspace.com/speedxband
www.myspace.com/openskyseparators
www.myspace.com/doubledrivemusic

...I can't think of a more fitting mascot for politicians, corporate executives, and televangelists.

....err, Mike, sounds to me like the strongest claim so far actually. I mean, they've lost the Iraqi oil, and you've got it now...

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2011 Prius

that was great!2 cups of coffee and read this for breakfast...where's my stetson?