Service is a big part of it too. But comon, show me one military man who doesn't like the things his trade entails? The fact that he is a trained warrior for the United States of America. The fact that I could say:
"Specialist Pavao, SAW Gunner, 10th Mountain Division"

Thats some of it too. I like that, I like the idea of being able to do that and getting into peak mental and physical shape.

Now the parents hate the idea, but when I am 18 they can't say much, and unfortunately for them it is my life, and its the path I want to choose. My father thinks only stupid redneck lunks join the Army because they have no other path. I've talked to many kids joining the Army, and a lot of them are like me: 1290 SAT, 3.6 GPA, AP Classes. I don't think its a waste: it gives you a lot of things college can't. I plant to attend college 4 years later, when I am 23. And be instilled with a sense of discipline and temperment that should make college a breeze for me.

He said he's going to college, after the military. But you already know that, because you read his post carefully...right? .

I think it's an excellent plan. He'll get great training, skills, discipline, physical fitness, and then he'll go to college mentally prepared to resist the liberal indoctrination his professors will inevitably try to push upon him.

__________________
_____
1979 300 SD
350,000 miles
_____
1982 300D-gone---sold to a buddy
_____
1985 300TD
270,000 miles
_____
1994 E320
not my favorite, but the wife wanted it

www.myspace.com/mikemover
www.myspace.com/openskystudio
www.myspace.com/speedxband
www.myspace.com/openskyseparators
www.myspace.com/doubledrivemusic

Kyle, give your folks a break. They're doing the right thing as parents--trying to protect and guide you. In some respects they are right about the folks you'll meet in the military.

The recruits are not rocket scientists (well, some are...) but they're average or above intelligence and high school grads. Most come from less than affluent backgrounds and about 30 percent are minorities, depending on the service branch and skill you enter.

The guys I served with 40 years ago were a mixed bag. Most of them were just normal guys putting in their time. Some of them were placed on Earth to pi$$ me off. In either case, I knew I could trust them to do their duty, and they trusted me. All these years later I stll correspond with guys in my department.

My Father, now deceased, was a destroyer captain in the Navy during WWII & Korea. I get email from some of his former shipmates, too. It can be a bond that lasts a lifetime and across generations.

Kyle, since it's evident you've made your decision please follow these guidelines before signing anything.

First I would like to commend you on your decision, it takes guts to take the hard road and I like that in a person. I don't think I would be successful today without my experience in the military, I might have figured out some of the lessons serving teaches you but it would be much later in life and maybe too late.

Because you have good grades and ASVAB score you can get more out of your enlistment agreement than you might think. The recruiter often tells you that you can request things after basic but don't count on that, get it in writing.

Since you want to serve with the 10th I would definitely make them include Ranger in your enlistment, the tenth is loaded with Rangers and you get to serve with much better trained individuals who will substantially increase your survival in combat, and you can proudly wear the Ranger badge. The training is a nightmare but it's worth it.

Ft. Drum and Ft. Carson are the likely posts that you will be stationed; Ft. Carson is home base for Special Forces so if you can get an SF promise TAKE IT.

If you have any questions please don't hesitate to ask.

PS Being a SAW gunner is fun at first until you carry that darn thing for a couple weeks.

I seriously need to start working out hardcore before I jump into this so I am not left behind. I can do the push ups and sit ups, but I gotta work on my running. Pull ups are becoming a breeze. I think I just need to get the form down for pushups. I mean, I'd like to go in the 10th, but other units would be fine. I like the idea of being a "Mountain Trooper" I like the 1st Cav. too. The Big Red One is also quite appealing, or the 3rd ID. All of these sound good. Maybe the SAW isn't the best idea, since I am a small statured guy, but I think if I seriously put my mind to working out, I will have no problem. I don't want to join a gym or anything, I just want to do simple training to build myself up. Right now I am just trying to do pushups all the time, in sets of 20-30. I need to get good at these.

...the best laid plans...ah to be young again...
It looks good now, but it doesn't do much for the average job resume. If you want good character-building exercises, go find a commercial fishing job in Alaska like I did at your age, but similarly, it doesn't do you much good when you're looking for another line of work.

Just don't become another statistic. Meet a nice girl, get her knocked up, then a steady income becomes the imperative--the military preys upon this kind of scenario.

I'm just playing Devil's Advocate here, not trying to cut you down. I've got an 18 yr old daughter, so this sort of thing hits pretty close to home for me. She wants to take a couple of years off after she graduates high school--scares the hell outta me!

Ultimately, it's your decision to make. I hope you make it with your long-term strategic interests in mind, and not as some way of 'proving' your independence from your parents.

The MINIMUMM requirement when I was in was 40 push ups 40 sits ups and the 2 mile run in 15 minutes.

Ranger qualification was 52 push ups 64 sit-ups 7 chin ups and the run in 14 something. You take the test in that order.

I carried a M203 on my M-16 because I wanted to be a bad ass, but rapidly changed my mind after the first force march and I was stuck with it until another newbie showed up to take it off my hands.

1st Cav is a good and prestigious unit but Ft. Hood sucks. 3rd infantry is Fr. Stewart Georgia is a nice place but again only to visit, yet I guess it's managable because I like the south.


I don't mean to scare you but I think it's best to do these things with your eyes open.

Maybe if your the one hiring and thats about it, get a clue!

Commercial fishing in Alaska is hardly character building unless your goal is to take a few years off your liver, been there done that. Unless your crab fishing which is a whole new story.

Z, a colleague of mine worked for NMFS as an observer on Japanese fishing boats in AK. His description of the fisherman's life was terrible/admirable. That you have done it speaks well of you. Its hard life. My friend reminisces about being the only English-speaker on foreign vessels for a month at a time. I gotta say, he's the most tolerant, mellow guy you'd ever meet. Like you, he's a leftie.

In a technical sense, being a SAW expert doesn't qualify one for anything in civilian life. At least I hope not. But more important than a particular technique or education is discipline of mind. If Kyle has that inside, the Army can help him refine it. Some of the finest leaders I've ever met were E-5 and E-6 enlisted men. They have no real power more than the esteem of their subordinates. But they're not trained to be managers--that's where the officer corps comes in. A youngster who does well as a junior officer learns to make decisions of importance not available to civilians. If he develops leadership skills as well, the world is his.

I recall a conversation in which a man offered my Father, after his military retirement, a managerial position responsible for a company's South American operations (we had lived in Cartegena for a couple of years). My Father said, "I've been responsible for a combat vessel at sea with 100 men's lives under my command and my nation's trust that I would do my duty, what have you to offer that would give such saitisfaction?"

That's what the military offers. Its certainly not the paycheck.

Botnst

MedMech

Yes I guess I am thinking about it in terms of prestige right now, but really I think anywhere I can serve my country is good. I just need to get in shape before I go in, probably in June or July. Every day I am just doing more and more push ups, I might utilize the weight room at my school, and join winter track to build up endurance to running in cold with a lot of clothing on.

HEY, what's wrong with Georgia?! I'm offended!

Mike

__________________
_____
1979 300 SD
350,000 miles
_____
1982 300D-gone---sold to a buddy
_____
1985 300TD
270,000 miles
_____
1994 E320
not my favorite, but the wife wanted it

www.myspace.com/mikemover
www.myspace.com/openskystudio
www.myspace.com/speedxband
www.myspace.com/openskyseparators
www.myspace.com/doubledrivemusic

I forced it to build my character. I think facing death every day for 12 hrs plus a day, 7 days a week for 3-4-5 months at a time builds a surplus of character, at least for those receptive to such things. I did very little drinking up there, cuz I knew better. The Elbow Room in Dutch Harbor has a reputation, and I didn't feel any need to meet that reputation face-to-face.

D'you really mean to tell this kid that toting a rifle around all day, or the finer points of mortar scoping mean diddly squat in the 'real' world? I went to college with quite a few guys who'd just completed their military 'sentence' (their term, not mine), and not one of them had much positive to say about the 'skills' they acquired.

That's not to say that some others don't value their time in the military, but I don't think all the uber patriotic breast-beating is very helpful for a young guy about to commit at least 4 years (and an additional 4 on inactive status) of his life.

My brother's as conservative and testosterone poisoned as most of you seem to be, yet he despised his 4 years in the army--couldn't wait to be discharged. Provided him with zilch-nada in employment skills on the outside.

Like I said before, I'm just providing a different perspective--the choice is his to make--I wish him the best.

And all of your uber-liberal military-bashing IS helpful???

The guy has made a very mature and honorable decision, and all you have to say is that he should "go to Alaska and fall off a boat" instead? Pathetic.

Mike

__________________
_____
1979 300 SD
350,000 miles
_____
1982 300D-gone---sold to a buddy
_____
1985 300TD
270,000 miles
_____
1994 E320
not my favorite, but the wife wanted it

www.myspace.com/mikemover
www.myspace.com/openskystudio
www.myspace.com/speedxband
www.myspace.com/openskyseparators
www.myspace.com/doubledrivemusic

That's a perspective a lot of folks share, Z. Its a useful reminder for folks considering a military enlistment. Fortunately, not the majority feel as you do.

If all one wants is a skill set, the military is a particularly poor choice--better to go to a tech school in the career field of your choice.

If all you want is a college education, go get a loan and go to college.

If putting your life on the line for your country appeals to you....

If being part of a team that has no peer....

If building friendships of a lifetime (sometimes terribly short)....

Then the military is the right choice.

Its not for everybody--hell, I'm living proof of that. The Navy and I were both deeply relieved and much improved by the end of my enlistment.

Incidentally, its either two or four years active and either two years active reserves (for 2 years active duty) or two yeasr inactive reserves (4 years active). Some especially technical fields require a six-year enlistment.

The officer corps has a different system

Botnst