Spike Lee in the news... - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

blackmercedes · #1 12-03-2003, 10:01 PM

Spike Lee has stirred the pot once again, this time (not the first on this topic for him) talking about "gangsta" culture and the degredation of African-American success thanks to their misguided attempt to morph "black culture" into a gangsta rap video. He attacks the emphasis on slang and the put-down of African-Americans that educate themselves and seek something different.

It is an interesting viewpoint, and coming from Spike, it just might create a stir...

http://www.msnbc.com/news/1000393.asp?0cv=LB10

mikemover · #2 12-04-2003, 10:00 PM

It's nice to finally hear something legitimate and constructive from a role model such as Spike, instead of more of the Jesse Jackson/Al Sharpton-style "The Man is keeping me down" race-baiting crap.

What he said makes a lot of sense...which means it will probably be largely, unceremoniously ignored by the media and the people he's trying to reach.

Mike

drbrandini · #3 12-04-2003, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mikemover
It's nice to finally hear something legitimate and constructive from a role model such as Spike, instead of more of the Jesse Jackson/Al Sharpton-style "The Man is keeping me down" race-baiting crap.

What he said makes a lot of sense...which means it will probably be largely, unceremoniously ignored by the media and the people he's trying to reach.

Mike

agreed

G-Benz · #4 12-05-2003, 11:21 AM

The truth is, much of what he finds disturbing has been going on long before gangsta rap was mainstream...

...it's just that now, the up and coming generation gets to soak up the misinformation sooner...

#5 12-05-2003, 03:11 PM

You know, I was a social worker for about 7 years before I got my head screwed on right and went to law school. One of the frustrating aspects of african american culture (and I'm not being rascist or trying to pick a fight, I'm only reflecting on my experiences and offering a candid opinion), is that the culture has identified itself with expressly not identifying itself with anything remotely "white" or representative of a culture of percieved oppression, which would include mainstream economic success and speaking grammatically correct english. It puts them in the bind of having to be "converted" to white style to be successful in the mainstream world, excluding sports, entertainment, etc.

The dean of my law school is african american, as are some of the professors. They can get down and talk "steet" if they want to, their success hasn't compromised their integity as people or african americans. Its too bad that you have to be a killa' or a thug or consider all women to be ho's and bi***es to be a true african american through the lens of rap culture.

Anyway, teen culture these days is a disaster no matter what race you are. I wouldn't want to be a teenager today myself. Once through the eighties was enough for me.

The Warden · #6 12-05-2003, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Orkrist
Anyway, teen culture these days is a disaster no matter what race you are. I wouldn't want to be a teenager today myself. Once through the eighties was enough for me.

Agree completely!!! I'm freshly out of that "culture", although I refused to take part in it. It made going through middle and high school a very lonely experience, but I think I'm a better person for it.

If you like what others like because you genuinely like it, that's perfectly fine, but it's not good to like things just because others do. IMHO it's more important to be your own person than to attempt to "fit in" with a crowd who probably doesn't care one way or another about you anyways...

Just my $.02...don't spend it all in one place

blackmercedes · #7 12-05-2003, 04:00 PM

Spike is onto something here. There is a self-defeating process going on with young African-Americans, and it needs to be recognized for what it is, and not idolized.

There is nothing wrong with rap music. In many ways it's simply a mirror reflecting the reality of life for many young black men and and women. However, it's the idolization of the gang-land lifestyle that is nothing short of destructive to those same young people.

Where does this come from? Is it life imitating art? Does that happen? We have a small black population in Canada (compared to the US), but our aboriginal population face many of the same issues and in many ways it's worse. They are a small minority of the general population, but a significant percentage of the prison population. They have little economic power and many young adults expect that their lives will be nothing more than short breaks between prison sentences.

Why is this? In Canada, most aboriginal people can attend university for free. Yes, you read it right, for FREE. But, the utilization rate is low. Frustrating. They fought for the right to self govern, but the result is highly corrupt family dominated reserves that have money to burn, but 99% of the people live in abjest poverty while a small ruling class live a lavish lifestyle.

Back to the "Rap" topic, I think one destructive message is that the only way out of poverty is the short-cut of professional sports or rap music. The white kids loo at Eminem and the black kids see Fifty-Cent as role models. What they never think about is that for every Marshall Mathers that becomes wealthy, there are 10,000 (or 1,000,000?) kids that don't make it.

I saw an interesting interview with Kid Rock. There is a line in one of his songs where he wishes to trade places with a "normal" fellow that works on an assembly line. He was questioned about the validity of the line. He explained that if he could go back in time and have a decent middle class childhood and adult life, he would take that ahead of a childhood of poverty and abuse with an adulthood of riches. I hadn't thought of it in those terms before.

The one fresh breath that Spike brings that differs from many speakers on the subject is the role of self responsibility, and the need for the community to take it on.

tabasco85331 · #8 12-05-2003, 04:59 PM

I know that there is an attitude among some blacks that those that are successful have sold out their culture because they are working successfully WITH whites, Hispanics, and Asians. I was told from a black friend of mine that is very educated, that alot of other blacks he knows, says he "talks white" and "acts white" because he doesnt use ebonics and/or bad grammar. He also told me that most of his friends are white because it seems that the black culture rejects him because he is educated. Too bad... Seems that he can't get any respect unless he is a rapper or sports star.

mikemover · #9 12-06-2003, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by blackmercedes
Spike is onto something here. There is a self-defeating process going on with young African-Americans, and it needs to be recognized for what it is, and not idolized.

Agreed.

A good place to start would be to get rid of the obnoxiously PC and often misleading and inappropriate term "African-American". Many of the people who refer to themselves by this label are neither. They were not born in Africa, and most have never even BEEN to Africa. What ever happened to "black" and "white", or even better, plain old "American" or "person". I don't consider myself "Irish-German-Dutch-Native-American". For I am none of those, really, except American. I was born and raised HERE, regardless of the heritage of my ancestors. What about black people living here who are originally from Jamaica or South America or Europe? They are not "African-Americans". Are black people in Europe "African-Europeans"? Are black people in Australia known as "African-Australians"? In a way, it's all semantics, but on the other hand, this whole hyphenated-American concept is separatist, misleading, and downright silly.

Quote:

Originally posted by blackmercedes
There is nothing wrong with rap music. The one fresh breath that Spike brings that differs from many speakers on the subject is the role of self responsibility, and the need for the community to take it on.

There is a LOT wrong with most of the popular rap music. It carries a terribly negative and counter-productive message, and has little redeeming musical or artistic value. There's PLENTY of great rap and hip-hop artists out there...but you won't see it on MTV or hear it on the radio for the most part. It's not cheesy enough and meaningless enough. As with most styles of music, the lowest-common-denominator stuff is the most popular, and the best stuff seldom gets heard by the masses.

Yes, Spike is definitely, refreshingly on to a good thing. Self-responsibility. Now THERE'S a great hyphenated word.

Mike

fahrgewehr2 · #10 12-06-2003, 12:19 AM

Well said mikemover. I couldn't agree with you more about the term African-American.

As you may know, Teddy Roosevelt had many of the same thoughts you discussed in your post:

" ... There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism." (begins the following passage qouting TR) I guess no one listened.

Link: http://www.rpatrick.com/USA/americanism/

Mike

#11 12-06-2003, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mikemover
There is a LOT wrong with most of the popular rap music... and has little redeeming musical or artistic value.
Mike

mike, thats an interesting position for an artist.

i was not aware that art was either right or wrong.

PS- with a few exceptions, i am not a big fan of rap.

Plantman · #12 12-06-2003, 11:23 AM

In my humble opinion, how kids are influenced by their "heroes", in this case rappers, can be controlled by their parents.

Some people will counter this by saying that a lot of blacks come from single parent households and that one parent can't do everything.

While their is some merit to that, there are a lot of single parents who don't allow their kids to walk with their pants hanging halfway down their ass, don't allow cursing at home,don't allow grabbing of the crotch like it was going to fall off, don't allow women to be called *****es and ho's etc.....

I have a 14 year old son, a 17 year old stepson and a 9 year old niece who I have raised. I will not tolerate any form of the so-called "thug" or "ghetto" behavior from my kids or their friends that come over the house. If my son wears his pants half way down his ass, he'll get warned, then a wedgie the likes of which no one would want and the problem is gone.

Parents, black white hispanic, etc.. need to take responsibility for their kids behavior.

mikemover · #13 12-06-2003, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ThrillBilly
mike, thats an interesting position for an artist.

i was not aware that art was either right or wrong.

PS- with a few exceptions, i am not a big fan of rap.

Art is wrong if it sucks. :p

Of course that's very subjective, but you cannot just re-arrange a pile of dog $h!t and call it art, and expect everyone to agree with you and congratulate you for being a genius $h!t-sculptor.

There has been a lot of "music" of all styles put out over the years that pretty easily qualifies as carefully re-arranged $h!t. Unfortunately it often becomes very successful.

Mike

blackmercedes · #14 12-06-2003, 06:37 PM

Just as in every walk of life, there is good and bad to be found in everything. This included rap music. I would find it highly unusual for a musician to be so judgemental and generalistic when it comes to someone else's material.

There is certainly a lot of content that has been burned onto disc just to satisfy the high demand for new product, and it's just plain crap. However, this is true of all music formats.

What Spike Lee is talking about is the specific message associated with a growing segment of black music/culture that attempts to justify the illegal/lazy/impaired attitude and activities of a group of black people.

I understand some of this. Since the moment that we had recorded music as a product, black music has been co-opted by white musicians and producers and commercialized without profiting the original artists. But, that's not the point of Spike's diatribe, and attempts to move the focus should be avoided.

The technological/industrial revolutions of the last 100 years have not been kind to the black community. Cotton picking machines resulted in a mass exodus north to work as unskilled workers in urban factories. Increased technical innovation and automation in production meant a shift away from unskilled workers and a movement of facilities to the suburbs, resulting in a concentration of black populations left in inner cities with high unemployment.

Embracing this ghetto lifestyle as a culture to be preserved makes NO sense to me! I see this as a problem to be solved, not a community to be embraced. Education is not training to be a white person! It's a strength that is held by the individual.

AustinsCE · #15 12-06-2003, 06:57 PM

Whats worse than being accepted, this lazy lifestyle, is that it seems almost encouraged. For example people on welfare stay on welfare and the government has no problem with it, when they should provide a work ethic in giving these people jobs. Moreover, people living in ghettos simply petition and eventually get new houses and more money, thus never learned is self reliance. Where I live, the poor side of town is actually about 99 percent white, but the same kind of mindset is obvious.