I'm sure Al Gore would have done a much better job handling terrorist, you guys on are the moon when it comes to real problems, I remember a survey done 52% of self proclaimed democrat voters believed that the right to kill an unborn child was the SINGLE MOST important issue facing America.

Remember the guy who wanted G.W do give him a job?

Al Gore's record of decisions is pretty spotty. Many have a self-advancing angle that puts his own personal ambitions on many branches of his decision tree.

He also has an incredible knack for bad luck and poor timing.

That combination would be a heck of a liability in wartime.

B

I remember a survey done 52% of self proclaimed democrat voters believed that the right to kill an unborn child was the SINGLE MOST important issue facing America.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's how the question was phrased.

I'm no fan of Kerry, (see above) but I am getting a little sick of the chicken hawks on the right attacking his and Max Cleland's war service as not being "that heroic" (search for Ann Coulter andMax Cleland, her latest is just disgraceful)

When GWB and Cheney (the war didn't fit into my plans) and Clinton were chilling here and in England these guys were where the bullets were flying.

I've never served and would certainly never be described as gung ho, but can we at least have a little deference for these guys showing up and put themselves in harms way. Maybe a Silver Star isn't what it used to be "in the good old days" but give me a freaking break.

I have a real strong hunch that letter will be snooped within a week.

I say give this scoundral from texas all the rope he wants, and four more years. Let him and his cronnies pay the price for what they are sowing.

__________________
300TD W124, Two VW TDI Passat Wagons,Cummins Ram 250, Kubota Tractor
23 cylinders sipping the sweet sauce of the soy bean

I was being sarcastic, IMO no matter what people think of G.W. he is the right man for the job a t this time because of his ability to not give a crap about polls and pull the trigger.

Also IMO the war record issue is a moot point, it's like a group of veteran's sitting around the bar at the American Legion and everyone has a story that tops the other.

The bottom line is that 90% of the men and women that served would perform a heroic act if given the opportunity. We have much more important things to be worried about than arguing about silly little things like this, and I will never demean another person’s service to their country under any circumstance.

I joined the VFW when I got out. Went to a few events. Most of the guys were genuine. For an awful lot of guys their time in service was the most important time of their life and for a lot of good reasons. I dropped because, hey, that was then, this is now. I like talkin'-up that stuff, but even I get tired of my own stories no matter how much I change them around.

I just heard that John Kerry wants to debate Dubyah on the Vietnam War. I could probably think of a greater waste of time and effort, but it would take some thought. Its time for ol' Kerry to Moveon, too.

So far, Kerry has made his contempt of Dubyah abundantly clear. That's a helpful campaign strategy for some folks, I suppose. For me, I am waiting for him to tell me what he has done since his Silver Star up until this campaign. I am also waiting for an explanation of what he intends to do as President.

B

LOL, So far I think his plan is to follow the polls and go from there.

We have an American Legion near my home that we frequent for family gatherings, because it's between our homes and generally like the membership but I often get turned off once the war stories begin, mainly because I know for a fact that many of them are untrue.

Not exactly. Here is his letter to W:

February 21, 2004

President George W. Bush
The White House
1600 Pennsylvania Avenue NW
Washington DC 20500

Dear President Bush,

Over the last week, you and your campaign have initiated a widespread attack on my service in Vietnam, my decision to speak out to end that war, and my commitment to the defense of this nation. Just today, Saxby Chambliss-- a man elected to the US Senate on the back of one of the most despicable campaigns ever conducted against Max Cleland, a true American Hero-- was carrying this attack for you.

As you well know, Vietnam was a very difficult and painful period in our nation's history, and the struggle for our veterans continues. So, it has been hard to believe that you would choose to re-open these wounds for your personal political gain. But, that is what you have chosen to do.

I am fighting to become the presidential nominee of the Democratic Party. Even before Democrats make their choice, you’ve launched a campaign of attacks against me. I am determined to run a campaign on the great challenges facing this country-- from creating jobs, to solving our health care crisis to getting our nation's ballooning deficit under control. But I will not sit back and allow my patriotism to be challenged.

America deserves a better debate. If you want to debate the Vietnam era, and the impact of our experiences on our approaches to presidential leadership, I am prepared to do so.

This is not a debate to be distorted through your $100 million dollar campaign fund. This is a debate that should be conducted face to face.

Mr. President, I hope you will conduct a campaign worthy of this nation’s future.

Sincerely,


John Kerry

http://www.snopes.com/politics/kerry/service.asp

Already done...in fact, it was posted the day before this thread was started.

After reading that, I think that Kerry only deserved one of those Purple Hearts (the last one)...and reading that actually raised my opinion of his character somewhat.

BTW, for the heck of it, I also looked up the two pictures floating around with him and Jane Fonda. Here's what Snopes has to say about them:

http://www.snopes.com/photos/politics/kerry.asp

and

http://www.snopes.com/photos/politics/kerry2.asp

One of them is true; the other was fabricated from two different pictures from two different events.

I just heard about it in more detail. Kerry (as other Democrats have consistently done) completely misrepresented Chambiss' comments in two regards. The first was that his criticism was of Kerry's Vietnam war record and the second was his (Kerry's) patriotism. In fact, Chambliss (correctly, but with abundant purple prose) that Kerry voted against several weapons systems that have been very useful tools of war. Kerry then stretched this criticism (as did Cleland and other Dems during Chambliss' senatorial campaign) to include an attack on patriotism. I'm sure that some Republicans somewhere have attacked folks' patriotism directly, but it is certainly not a common thread. It is usually done through unelected flacks and pundits, not by elected officials.

What is extraordinary is that Kerry, in his letter complains that the Bu****es are atacking him before the Dems have even chosen a candidate. But the Demo candidates have carried out systematic and vicious character assasinations and deliberate distortion of fact to prove that each is a better not-Bush than the other and to weaken the public's support for the president.

We're at the beginning of the campaign. How nasty do you think the two parties are going to get?

B

I don't have the particulars of what Chambless said, but I don't doubt that Kerry and Cleland stretched his remarks. Kerry and Cleland want nothing more than for Bush to attack their patriotism and they are probably smart to keep inviting him to do that. At some point, Bush will have to speak to this issue without cue cards. The chances of him blowing it are high. A couple of years ago, not long after 9/11, Bush said that the Democrats in the Senate don't care about the safety of the American people. If Kerry and Cleland keep baiting him, he might say something similar about Kerry which will give the Democrats an opening to focus on Kerry's military record and there is no way that Bush/Cheney can match Kerry on that point.

Before mikemover flames me for acting like a 10th grader on this, I am not saying that we should be focusing on military service thirty years ago, I am just talking about political strategies that might change votes.

I agree with your assessment of tehir strategy. It is exactly this strategy that Gore followed in his debates and which he failed to achieve. The result was that Bush looked like a clueless dolt and Gore looked like an arrogant ass. What a great choice.

B

Bush Campaign Chairman Marc Racicot said on NPR this morning that Bush "volunteered to go to Vietnam". Since when? Juan Williams, true to his Fox Allstar status, didn't follow up on it, which is too bad because I would love to know what Racicot meant. Not even Dan Quayle had the nerve to deny that the National Guard was a good way to avoid being sent to Vietnam.

Link to NPR audio.

NG pilots and crew did go to Vietnam, of that I'm certain. Don't know specifically about any TX units. I think it was NG army that didn't go unless in certain lines of work. NG status was not a guarantee of staying home, it merely adjusted your odds. Like me going into the USN. 1/3rd of my BP&E class got shipped to riverine craft, but I got the Caribbean--ahhh sunny beaches, clear water, warm temperature and no VC!

But I'm kind of hazy on the whole NG thing--its from ancient memory, long buried. anybody know fo' sho'?

B