Another India??? - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

A264172 · #1 07-13-2006, 07:28 PM

An interesting take...

"Iraq is sometimes compared to Vietnam in the early 1970s or Yugoslavia in the late 1980s, but a more relevant -- and more sobering -- precedent may be British India in 1947. There was no civil war in India, no organized militias, no centrally orchestrated ethnic cleansing, no battle lines, and no conflict over territory. Yet millions of people died or became refugees. British India's professional army was sliced along communa 13bc l lines as the country was partitioned into Hindu-majority and Muslim-majority regions. Unable to either bridge the widening chasm between both groups or control the violence, the British colonial administrators were forced to beat a hasty retreat. As in Iraq today, the problem in India then lay with a minority that believed in its own manifest destiny to rule and demanded, in exchange for embracing the political process, concessions from an unyielding majority. The pervasive sectarian violence and ethnic cleansing plaguing Iraq today are ominous reminders of what happened in India some 60 years ago. They may also be a worse omen: if the situation in Iraq deteriorates further, the whole Middle East would be at risk of a sectarian conflict between Shiites and Sunnis."

Article here: http://www.foreignaffairs.org/20060701faessay85405-p0/vali-nasr/when-the-shiites-rise.html

Botnst · #2 07-13-2006, 07:31 PM

That's a better analogy than the dumbass Vietnam analogy.

B

A264172 · #3 07-13-2006, 07:37 PM

The article is long (5-pages) but worth it when you get the time.

I just found the link today and it seems to be full of top shelf thoughts.

peragro · #4 07-13-2006, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

That's a better analogy than the dumbass Vietnam analogy.

B

Quite true, but doesn't have the press "kick" that comparisons to Vietnam are supposed to arouse.

Who gets to be the Iraqi Gandhi?

Botnst · #5 07-13-2006, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peragro

Quite true, but doesn't have the press "kick" that comparisons to Vietnam are supposed to arouse.

Who gets to be the Iraqi Gandhi?

pacifism only works if you're fighting an ethical adversary.

B

t walgamuth · #6 07-13-2006, 10:37 PM

there are good parallels in the india example. hundreds of thousands were slaughtered wholesale when the british pulled out.

there are valid elements in comparing viet nam too though.

tom w

t walgamuth · #7 07-14-2006, 02:43 AM

b

you asked over on the other thread what i thought of the article you posted above. it was a bit too esoteric for my simple problem solving mind to get around. i didnt get through it all. a quote from the old sean connery candice bergen movie comes to mind when connery's character talks about the modern western military using guns which fire bullets 'promiscuously'.

it was a movie in which there were some interesting details portrayed about guns. like the fact that the technologically simple bedouins used enfield model 1917 rifles. it even portrayed connery using the adjustable sight for a long shot...a scene that was ruined by the fact that he shot from horseback. but somewhere there was someone involved who knew guns. the tr quote too was good...
"i wonder what kind of rifle the old bastard uses... fire off a telegram...find out what kindof rifle he uses.... i bet it is a springfield".

other great lines in it "mrs pentacaris, you are a lot of trouble"...."the ratsuli does not kill women and children...why, i would play chess with you once more then set you free"..... .. ."what does the sultan like?...........long pause while the arab takes a long thoughtful drag from a water pipe...."lions...the sultan would like lions"... ..."why that would be a very dangerous thing to do....it could result in the whole world going to war...." response "i should hope so...imagine....the whole world going to war" looks off toward some admirable goal....."lets drink to that...the whole world at war".

one of my favorite movies. i wonder if i could find it on dvd. my only copy is recorded off the tv about 20 years ago. some of my favorite actors...brian kieth candice b and connery. a very interesting movie based somewhat on fact.

tom w

cmac2012 · #8 07-14-2006, 02:47 AM

Agreed and agreed. It does seem a lot like India, and could go as bad. Regarding our belief that our unassailable goodness and power could make things right there, it's not unlike Vietnam at'all.

Botnst · #9 07-14-2006, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth

b

you asked over on the other thread what i thought of the article you posted above. it was a bit too esoteric for my simple problem solving mind to get around. i didnt get through it all. a quote from the old sean connery candice bergen movie comes to mind when connery's character talks about the modern western military using guns which fire bullets 'promiscuously'.

it was a movie in which there were some interesting details portrayed about guns. like the fact that the technologically simple bedouins used enfield model 1917 rifles. it even portrayed connery using the adjustable sight for a long shot...a scene that was ruined by the fact that he shot from horseback. but somewhere there was someone involved who knew guns. the tr quote too was good...
"i wonder what kind of rifle the old bastard uses... fire off a telegram...find out what kindof rifle he uses.... i bet it is a springfield".

other great lines in it "mrs pentacaris, you are a lot of trouble"...."the ratsuli does not kill women and children...why, i would play chess with you once more then set you free"..... .. ."what does the sultan like?...........long pause while the arab takes a long thoughtful drag from a water pipe...."lions...the sultan would like lions"... ..."why that would be a very dangerous thing to do....it could result in the whole world going to war...." response "i should hope so...imagine....the whole world going to war" looks off toward some admirable goal....."lets drink to that...the whole world at war".

one of my favorite movies. i wonder if i could find it on dvd. my only copy is recorded off the tv about 20 years ago. some of my favorite actors...brian kieth candice b and connery. a very interesting movie based somewhat on fact.

tom w

"The Wind and the Lion." I loved that movie! One of my favorite scenes is the Razouli (Connery) coming to free Bergin from her kidnappers. There was some interesting dialogue concerning justice, too. And of course the line you quoted was excellent as is the point you make.

I think that's a bases-loaded home run.

Mike Murrell · #10 07-14-2006, 11:12 AM

Iraq might be more like Viet Nam if:

a. Conscription were in place
b. There was nothing of value in Iraq to begin with.

Some will argue that U. S reservists are being "back door" drafted. I wouldn't disagree with that. The "steady feed" you get with conscription had to be filled another way.

Unfortunately there is something of value in Iraq as we all know, so a hasty exit like the one that took place on 4/30/75 isn't likely unless everyone buys off on $8 a gallon gas.

Funny how so many large pockets of crude oil are controlled by people who loath the U. S.

Sorry for getting off-topic...just felt like sounding off.