All I did was to look up a couple of idiotic comments on "where are the weapons of mass destruction" and my blood pressure jumped. OK, to recap the last 4 years in a nutshell:

1) this is a CLINTON recession, not Bush's. It officially started 1/1/2001 and unofficially around November, 2000. Clinton was in office then.
2) Jihad started in 1970's, not because Bush became president. Bush is the second president (After Reagan) to do something about.
3) North Korea crisis was created by Jimmy Carter and Clinton in 1994 by a treaty that gave NK billions of $$ and uniterrupted opportunity to get the nukes.
4) John effing Kerry declared that a president of the United States has a right and, in fact, a duty, to take out Saddam Hussein at ANY TIME with or without the authority of the UN. Of course, he said that in 1997. In 2001 (september), in an interview, he accused Bush of dragging his feet and demanded, that Bush does something about the growing threat of Iraq and WMDs.
5) Bush NEVER SAID that Iraq represents "imminent threat". That was said by Dicky Gephardt and Teddy ("wehere iiiss my drink!hiccup") Kennedy to justify their vote for the war. Bush said we cannot allow Iraq to BECOME an imminent threat.
6) Putting panties on the prisoners head is not an abuse. cutting their hands, yanking their fingernails out, and dropping them into acid, IS.
7) MM is a fat, angry liar. Every one of his 5 premises in that stupid anti-american propaganda piece is 100% wrong. It's like calling Stone's "JFK" a documentary. BTW- I can clearly show MM's lies (example- Taliban was invited to the US by Clinton, there NEVER was a Unocal pipline in Afghanistan, there IS a clear link between Saddam and Al Qaeda, etc, etc). Go ahead, tel me ONE of the so called "Bush lies". I dare you.
8) we are winning big time the war on terror. Just read 9/11 commissions bulletin # 15. Ooops, thats right, NOBODY reported it.
9) Most of the press can now be safely accused of working for Kerry campaign (but that's another topic). Just ask me for examples.
10) on July 1 WMDs were located by Polish Forces in Iraq. 17 warheads were CONFIRMED to contain sarin and mustard gas. This was confirmed by 3 independent labs. Rumsfeld brought it up during a NATO summit. but, ooops, German (hmm.... how did I know...) news agency reported that undisclosed american sources stated that only 2 warheads contained gas and besides " the threat was low, because warheads were old (?)". This was since DENIDED by the Polish government who stands behind it's original finding. However, a Polish general (Zemke) commented, that curiously, another "unknown" american source" continues to claim that no gas was fgound at all. Hmmmm.... wonder who is that source....
11) menawhile, an assault on the coalition forces continues. no, not insurgents, French (this time) press. They claim that after a mine exploded near Polish military convoy, Polish troops opened fire on civilians and wounded 11. the facts? a civilian car near the explosion lost control; and hit a tree wounding the driver.
12) "Saddam not involved in 9/11." errr, who said he was? BTW, did you read a sentence before or a sentence AFTER that statement in the 9/11 commission bulletin?? Saddam was clearly tied to Al Qaeda, and all of the Bush's info on that turned uot to be completely credible and accurate. Of COURSE, 90% of you have NO CLUE what I'm talking about, because THAT information never made it to the news papers.
13) back to the news papers, remember 2 month ago, the headlines "Polish Government considers withdrawing from Iraq"?? This was so over the top and so COMPLETELY opposite what the Polish president said, that the Polish Government felt complelled to issue a denial. Of course, the denial NEVER MADE IT to the US "Kerry for President" press. It's got so bad, that if I want to know what's really happening, I have to call my buddies in the old country...
14) The economy gained 1.3 million jobs... since March!!!! take that and stick your "worst economy since..." John effing Kerry.

15) did anybody finally pinned down what is it exactly, yhat John effing Kerry is for or againstt? because I still struggle with this...


OK, gotta get some sleep. go ahead, try your puny denials or try to show me where am I wrong. I did not have a good lough in a while..

__________________
1985 190D 2.2l Sold-to Brother-in-law
1996 Mustang 3.8l -"thinks it's a sports car"
1988 Grand Wagoneer - Sold (good home)
1995 Grand Cherokee Ltd -"What was I thinking??!!"

I'll give that post a thumbs up


(wahoo!! Now to put on the flame suit )

__________________
past MB rides:
'68 220D
'68 220D(another one)
'67 230
'84 SD
Current rides:
'06 Lexus RX330
'93 Ford F-250
'96 Corvette
'99 Polaris 700 RMK sled
2011 Polaris Assault
'86 Yamaha TT350(good 'ol thumper)

1) So what. He's had four years, during which 3 million people lost their jobs, millions saw their retirement savings go up in smoke, and hundreds of thousands of jobs headed overseas. Who gives a $hit when it started, the real issue is that the only thing Bush seems able to do to end it is to hand out tax cuts to fatcats and corporations. By the way, last Foxnews poll showed 49% of Americans still think we are in a recession. And what's a "jobless recovery"? Bottom line, Bush just ain't got the sack to handle a big problem like a recession. After four years of failure at Economic Recovery 101, he needs to be fired. Clinton inherited a recession from Bush I, and turned it around in less than a year. Even Wall Street is starting to talk like getting rid of Bush and his record deficits is a good idea.

2)That's nice

3) By declaring North Korea part of the "axis of evil", Bush forced them to go nuclear to deter us from invading them. It worked.

4) I wish I could tell the future too.

5) Just a damned lie:
"There's no question that Iraq was a threat to the people of the United States."
• White House spokeswoman Claire Buchan, 8/26/03

"We ended the threat from Saddam Hussein's weapons of mass destruction."
• President Bush, 7/17/03

Iraq was "the most dangerous threat of our time."
• White House spokesman Scott McClellan, 7/17/03

"Saddam Hussein is no longer a threat to the United States because we removed him, but he was a threat...He was a threat. He's not a threat now."
• President Bush, 7/2/03

"Absolutely."
• White House spokesman Ari Fleischer answering whether Iraq was an "imminent threat," 5/7/03

"We gave our word that the threat from Iraq would be ended."
• President Bush 4/24/03

"The threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction will be removed."
• Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, 3/25/03

"It is only a matter of time before the Iraqi regime is destroyed and its threat to the region and the world is ended."
• Pentagon spokeswoman Victoria Clarke, 3/22/03

"The people of the United States and our friends and allies will not live at the mercy of an outlaw regime that threatens the peace with weapons of mass murder."
• President Bush, 3/19/03

"The dictator of Iraq and his weapons of mass destruction are a threat to the security of free nations."
• President Bush, 3/16/03

"This is about imminent threat."
• White House spokesman Scott McClellan, 2/10/03

Iraq is "a serious threat to our country, to our friends and to our allies."
• Vice President Dick Cheney, 1/31/03

Iraq poses "terrible threats to the civilized world."
• Vice President Dick Cheney, 1/30/03

Iraq "threatens the United States of America."
• Vice President Cheney, 1/30/03

"Iraq poses a serious and mounting threat to our country. His regime has the design for a nuclear weapon, was working on several different methods of enriching uranium, and recently was discovered seeking significant quantities of uranium from Africa."
• Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, 1/29/03

"Well, of course he is.”
• White House Communications Director Dan Bartlett responding to the question “is Saddam an imminent threat to U.S. interests, either in that part of the world or to Americans right here at home?”, 1/26/03

"Saddam Hussein possesses chemical and biological weapons. Iraq poses a threat to the security of our people and to the stability of the world that is distinct from any other. It's a danger to its neighbors, to the United States, to the Middle East and to the international peace and stability. It's a danger we cannot ignore. Iraq and North Korea are both repressive dictatorships to be sure and both pose threats. But Iraq is unique. In both word and deed, Iraq has demonstrated that it is seeking the means to strike the United States and our friends and allies with weapons of mass destruction."
• Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, 1/20/03

"The Iraqi regime is a threat to any American. ... Iraq is a threat, a real threat."
• President Bush, 1/3/03

"The world is also uniting to answer the unique and urgent threat posed by Iraq whose dictator has already used weapons of mass destruction to kill thousands."
• President Bush, 11/23/02

"I would look you in the eye and I would say, go back before September 11 and ask yourself this question: Was the attack that took place on September 11 an imminent threat the month before or two months before or three months before or six months before? When did the attack on September 11 become an imminent threat? Now, transport yourself forward a year, two years or a week or a month...So the question is, when is it such an immediate threat that you must do something?"
• Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, 11/14/02

"Saddam Hussein is a threat to America."
• President Bush, 11/3/02

"I see a significant threat to the security of the United States in Iraq."
• President Bush, 11/1/02

"There is real threat, in my judgment, a real and dangerous threat to American in Iraq in the form of Saddam Hussein."
• President Bush, 10/28/02

"The Iraqi regime is a serious and growing threat to peace."
• President Bush, 10/16/02

"There are many dangers in the world, the threat from Iraq stands alone because it gathers the most serious dangers of our age in one place. Iraq could decide on any given day to provide a biological or chemical weapon to a terrorist group or individual terrorists."
• President Bush, 10/7/02

"The Iraqi regime is a threat of unique urgency."
• President Bush, 10/2/02

"There's a grave threat in Iraq. There just is."
• President Bush, 10/2/02

"This man poses a much graver threat than anybody could have possibly imagined."
• President Bush, 9/26/02

"No terrorist state poses a greater or more immediate threat to the security of our people and the stability of the world than the regime of Saddam Hussein in Iraq."
• Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, 9/19/02

"Some have argued that the nuclear threat from Iraq is not imminent - that Saddam is at least 5-7 years away from having nuclear weapons. I would not be so certain. And we should be just as concerned about the immediate threat from biological weapons. Iraq has these weapons."
• Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, 9/18/02

"Iraq is busy enhancing its capabilities in the field of chemical and biological agents, and they continue to pursue an aggressive nuclear weapons program. These are offensive weapons for the purpose of inflicting death on a massive scale, developed so that Saddam Hussein can hold the threat over the head of any one he chooses. What we must not do in the face of this mortal threat is to give in to wishful thinking or to willful blindness."
• Vice President Dick Cheney, 8/29/02

6) The real issue is whether Bush and Rumsfeld set the stage for these abuses. Since they have no al_queda connection, no WMDS, they were willing to torture people to get something, anything they could use to save their asses.

7) If you have proof of an al-queda Saddam link, better call the 911 Commission, they apparently don't have info you do. Give it to Cheney to, he can't seem to come up with it either.

8) If we are "winning" the war on terrorism, where the F**K is Ossama? Fixin to be in your backyard thanks to Bush.

9) Oh, I have your examples: Foxnews, MSNBC, AM radio, Wall St Journal, hundreds of local papers, the Moonies Washington Times-UPI syndicate, the GOP disinformation machine that plants false stories in the press.

10) So thats an imminent threat? Keep trying to find WMDs being massed produced to threaten the US. The world is waiting. It's also been widely reported in the press that the Poles have now stated the shells tested negative for sarin. Big goose eg on your story. At this stage you have one old artillery shell with Sarin, and three or four rusty, leaky mortar shells with mustard gas, a World War I blister agent. And you accuse MM of exageration

11) We've killed over 20,000 civilains, probably more, in Iraq

12) Because it is false bull$hit only true believers like you still believe.

13) The back and forth on the Poles staying or going was widely reported in the press. They are the poorest country in Europe, and they will stay as long as we continue to bribe their ass with foriegn aid, a true member of the Coalition of the Billing. BTW- I never noticed you mention the Spanish, third largest partner, who got the hell out.

14) The econmy lost 3 million jobs under Bush. It has since gained 1.3 million as you noted. Do the math.
Also, for the first time in history we export more hi-tech jobs than we create. Have a good time flipping burgers.

15) He's not Bush

No flames, just the facts, which is what really burns your ass.

You mean you are not going to post on this forum anymore? don't forget that there are a lot of lonely MB owners out there just waiting to take your seat...............

William Rogers.......

Kirk, honestly, there's really no need to rub it in like that...

__________________
2011 Prius

I think Piotr said, in #5 that Bush never used the "immanent threat" phrase but that Kennedy & Gephardt did use it (I didn't know that). You use as supporting evidence a different phrase uttered by somebody else.

Danged if I'm going to read the rest.

More stupid semantic games. Let's see if we can figure out what the definition of is, is:



"Absolutely."
• White House spokesman Ari Fleischer answering whether Iraq was an "imminent threat," 5/7/03

"This is about imminent threat."
• White House spokesman Scott McClellan, 2/10/03
(of course, these persons are Bush's spokesmen, not Bush himself, therefore, Bush didn't say it, even tho this man is Bush's spokeman. They are just speaking his own mind here. In fact instead of calling it "The President's Daily Press Briefing" they are going to change the name to "Sorta of a Daily Press Briefing, by Ari and Scott")


"There is real threat, in my judgment, a real and dangerous threat to American in Iraq in the form of Saddam Hussein."
• President Bush, 10/28/02
(But not IMMINENT. I did not say IMMINENT, damn it!

"The dictator of Iraq and his weapons of mass destruction are a threat to the security of free nations."
• President Bush, 3/16/03

"Saddam Hussein is no longer a threat to the United States because we removed him, but he was a threat...He was a threat. He's not a threat now."
• President Bush, 7/2/03

"We ended the threat from Saddam Hussein's weapons of mass destruction."
• President Bush, 7/17/03

"Saddam Hussein is a threat to America."
• President Bush, 11/3/02

"I see a significant threat to the security of the United States in Iraq."
• President Bush, 11/1/02



"The Iraqi regime is a serious and growing threat to peace."
• President Bush, 10/16/02

"There are many dangers in the world, the threat from Iraq stands alone because it gathers the most serious dangers of our age in one place. Iraq could decide on any given day to provide a biological or chemical weapon to a terrorist group or individual terrorists."
• President Bush, 10/7/02

"The Iraqi regime is a threat of unique urgency."
• President Bush, 10/2/02

"There's a grave threat in Iraq. There just is."
• President Bush, 10/2/02
"This man poses a much graver threat than anybody could have possibly imagined."
• President Bush, 9/26/02



AND OF COURSE THESE GUYS ARE JUST TELLING STORIES "OUT OF SCHOOL!" SHAME ON THEM. IF BUSH HAD KNOWN HE WOULD HAVE BEEN SO MAD!:



"Some have argued that the nuclear threat from Iraq is not imminent - that Saddam is at least 5-7 years away from having nuclear weapons. I would not be so certain. And we should be just as concerned about the immediate threat from biological weapons. Iraq has these weapons."
• Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, 9/18/02

"Iraq is busy enhancing its capabilities in the field of chemical and biological agents, and they continue to pursue an aggressive nuclear weapons program. These are offensive weapons for the purpose of inflicting death on a massive scale, developed so that Saddam Hussein can hold the threat over the head of any one he chooses. What we must not do in the face of this mortal threat is to give in to wishful thinking or to willful blindness."
• Vice President Dick Cheney, 8/29/02


There's no question that Iraq was a threat to the people of the United States."
• White House spokeswoman Claire Buchan, 8/26/03

Iraq was "the most dangerous threat of our time."
• White House spokesman Scott McClellan, 7/17/03



"We gave our word that the threat from Iraq would be ended."
• President Bush 4/24/03

"The threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction will be removed."
• Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, 3/25/03

"It is only a matter of time before the Iraqi regime is destroyed and its threat to the region and the world is ended."
• Pentagon spokeswoman Victoria Clarke, 3/22/03

"The people of the United States and our friends and allies will not live at the mercy of an outlaw regime that threatens the peace with weapons of mass murder."
• President Bush, 3/19/03


Iraq is "a serious threat to our country, to our friends and to our allies."
• Vice President Dick Cheney, 1/31/03

Iraq poses "terrible threats to the civilized world."
• Vice President Dick Cheney, 1/30/03

Iraq "threatens the United States of America."
• Vice President Cheney, 1/30/03

"Iraq poses a serious and mounting threat to our country. His regime has the design for a nuclear weapon, was working on several different methods of enriching uranium, and recently was discovered seeking significant quantities of uranium from Africa."
• Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, 1/29/03

"Well, of course he is.”
• White House Communications Director Dan Bartlett responding to the question “is Saddam an imminent threat to U.S. interests, either in that part of the world or to Americans right here at home?”, 1/26/03

"Saddam Hussein possesses chemical and biological weapons. Iraq poses a threat to the security of our people and to the stability of the world that is distinct from any other. It's a danger to its neighbors, to the United States, to the Middle East and to the international peace and stability. It's a danger we cannot ignore. Iraq and North Korea are both repressive dictatorships to be sure and both pose threats. But Iraq is unique. In both word and deed, Iraq has demonstrated that it is seeking the means to strike the United States and our friends and allies with weapons of mass destruction."
• Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, 1/20/03

"The Iraqi regime is a threat to any American. ... Iraq is a threat, a real threat."
• President Bush, 1/3/03

"The world is also uniting to answer the unique and urgent threat posed by Iraq whose dictator has already used weapons of mass destruction to kill thousands."
• President Bush, 11/23/02

"I would look you in the eye and I would say, go back before September 11 and ask yourself this question: Was the attack that took place on September 11 an imminent threat the month before or two months before or three months before or six months before? When did the attack on September 11 become an imminent threat? Now, transport yourself forward a year, two years or a week or a month...So the question is, when is it such an immediate threat that you must do something?"
• Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, 11/14/02




"No terrorist state poses a greater or more immediate threat to the security of our people and the stability of the world than the regime of Saddam Hussein in Iraq."
• Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, 9/19/02

Can you hear GW trying to pronounce "imminent?"

I think I've heard and read all I can take about Iraq and the reasons we're in Iraq. It really doesn't matter right now. America will become even more divided the day after the election. I just wanna hear my friends talk about cars again.

__________________
You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows - Robert A. Zimmerman

Dubyah didn't mispronounciate "immenent" did he?

Actually, Kuan I tried to make that point on the WMD thread. It's time to quit arguing it. The vast preponderous of facts are there, to the point the conclusion is obvious. The guy simply never was an imminent threat. For some reason it was very important to the people in the Bush administration for us to think he was, and its still important to the point that he and his supporters will point to a few old munitions and claim they were right, in the hopes of fooling us into not remembering their initial claims. We all obviously have been conned by somebody. Its starting to be an argument about whether the sun rises each day or not, and has become truly tiresome.

Well, my tired-a$$ friend, why don't you drop it?

B

...ah, Piotr and Vronsky back together again--I've missed the sparks.

Posted by Botnst: Well, my tired-a$$ friend, why don't you drop it?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Temper, temper.

Joe B.