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  #61  
Old 01-07-2018, 05:28 PM
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Post Cold Starting Drill

It sounds good and runs very smoothly, that's good .

I don't see any smoke but you shouldn't if the engine runs well and is in good shape .

I'm sure the cold exacerbates the leak .

Seriously cold weather starting drill (40* F and below) :

Depress and release accelerator pedal twice then _hold_it_to_the_floor_, temp below 40* F cycle the glow plugs _twice_ then crank the engine until it's running on all five cylinders before letting off the key .

When new you car came with a card describing this procedure, it worked very well to get my old '79 worn out low compression 617 engine to light right off in any cold .

Take that other battery and charge it gently and slowly (as low an amperage as your charger will go) for 12 ~ 24 hours before it dies from being left discharged .

Remember to always use those little battery to tray clamps ! .

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1982 240D 408,XXX miles
Ignorance is the mother of suspicion and fear is the father

I did then what I knew how to do ~ now that I know better I do better
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  #62  
Old 01-07-2018, 09:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 300Drestoration View Post
This was a good opportunity to make a video of the engine bay exhaust. It's worse than i had remembered, or maybe it just got worse. Or maybe it's just that low temps makes it super apparent.
Either way, here's a video.. Engine Bay Exhaust
It certainly is not centered around the turbo. It seems to be coming from underneath and closer to the firewall.
Any thoughts? I think i'll just take it to a shop for them to evaluate, but perhaps it's something i can address myself. I don't have much time on my hands these days though.
I'd suspect your flex pipe on the downpipe probably has a hole or three in it. Not sure if the 123 is the same as the 126, but there is also a joint down below that could be loose. Could be as easy as tightening the bolts up if that's where it's coming from.
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  #63  
Old 01-08-2018, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vwnate1 View Post
It sounds good and runs very smoothly, that's good .

I don't see any smoke but you shouldn't if the engine runs well and is in good shape .

I'm sure the cold exacerbates the leak .

Seriously cold weather starting drill (40* F and below) :

Depress and release accelerator pedal twice then _hold_it_to_the_floor_, temp below 40* F cycle the glow plugs _twice_ then crank the engine until it's running on all five cylinders before letting off the key .

When new you car came with a card describing this procedure, it worked very well to get my old '79 worn out low compression 617 engine to light right off in any cold .

Take that other battery and charge it gently and slowly (as low an amperage as your charger will go) for 12 ~ 24 hours before it dies from being left discharged .

Remember to always use those little battery to tray clamps ! .
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diseasel300 View Post
I'd suspect your flex pipe on the downpipe probably has a hole or three in it. Not sure if the 123 is the same as the 126, but there is also a joint down below that could be loose. Could be as easy as tightening the bolts up if that's where it's coming from.



This start up procedure has worked perfectly twice now so far. Granted, it had only been 2 hours since running the first time, however it was in fact -10degrees so possibly car was fully cold by then. Second time was this morning and it started up great, however it was around 25 degrees outside so maybe that was high enough. But either way thank you VWNate! I don't know how i never registered in my mind that there was a proper startup procedure. I guess the fact that engine block heaters exist made me think that those were a necessary solution. I sure would rather not depend on that thing.

I don't know if i'm grossly misinterpretting smoke/heat/exhaust but in that video and in real life even moreso i see TONS of exhaust floating up from around the downpipe/flex area. Not smoke. And it sure smells like exhaust.
I may have used the wrong word. From the behavior of the visible exhaust it seems to be coming from somewhere deeper under that juncture though, not so much directly coming from the flex.

I had to replace the flex on my previous car, so i know what those holes look like. I had major ones in mine. I will take a small mirror and check underside of flex, but it seems like it's looking healthy from above and sides.

It would be very nice if all i had to do was tighten some bolts down under there. What is the easiest way to access that bolt juncture (if it exists on the w123) ?

I would even be ok with temporarily doing a patch of downpipe with some exhaust tape/clamp. I could at least make it last until when the weather stays above freezing for a few days and i can work easier on things.
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  #64  
Old 01-08-2018, 09:28 PM
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You should still follow the cold weather starting drill after running the block heater as it takes a lot of load off the battery and starter too.....

DON'T try to tighten any exhaust parts ! . they'll break off making things worse .

I've had mixed results with exhaust pipe wraps, no reason not to try though .

If you have to drive it with exhaust leaks, open the right rear window 1/4" and run the HVAC fan on high to blow the exhaust out as best it can .

Consider borrowing/ buying a snowmobile suit so you don't freeze your tukis .

This all reminds me of old cars & trucks from the 1940's that never had heaters, accumulated plenty of rust holes and were our daily driver's in the 1960's......
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1982 240D 408,XXX miles
Ignorance is the mother of suspicion and fear is the father

I did then what I knew how to do ~ now that I know better I do better
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  #65  
Old 01-08-2018, 09:33 PM
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Originally Posted by vwnate1 View Post
You should still follow the cold weather starting drill after running the block heater as it takes a lot of load off the battery and starter too.....
If i don't use the heater at all for the next couple months, is it going to cause issues if every time i start up the car i use the cold weather approach?
I probably can't park in the driveway at all, so it's on the street by my door. But having an extension cord out overnight, draped across the sidewalk, is a bad idea especially in the winter/ice/dark. There is foot traffic occasionally.
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  #66  
Old 01-08-2018, 09:44 PM
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Give it a try sans block heater, if it lights off you're good to go .

Remember : it takes a while to re charge the battery so don't go test starting it, only start it if you're going to drive it 20 minutes or more .

NEVER let off the foot feed until all five cylinders are firing as the compression can and will stall it and make it nearly impossible to re start .
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-Nate
1982 240D 408,XXX miles
Ignorance is the mother of suspicion and fear is the father

I did then what I knew how to do ~ now that I know better I do better
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  #67  
Old 01-08-2018, 09:49 PM
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Originally Posted by vwnate1 View Post

NEVER let off the foot feed until all five cylinders are firing as the compression can and will stall it and make it nearly impossible to re start .
Can't wait till i fully understand the workings of an engine
Thank you that is helpful.
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  #68  
Old 01-08-2018, 09:56 PM
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Next time you're getting the smoke/exhaust/whatever coming up into the engine bay like that, crawl under the car and find out where it's coming from. It should be pretty obvious where the leak is because you should see the smoke/steam/whatever coming out where the breach is. The 126 has a flange connection sort of under the passenger foot area next to the transmission. There's a sort of "donut" seal in there and I had mine come loose and leak like crazy. Mine was due to misalignment when I reassembled the exhaust, tightening the bolts took care of it. I'd be looking for the exhaust leak, I can't stand the smell of exhaust in the cabin!
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  #69  
Old 01-08-2018, 10:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 300Drestoration View Post
Can't wait till i fully understand the workings of an engine
Thank you that is helpful.
Well ;

In the end as long as you know how to properly operate a machine, it isn't completely necessary to know how every bit of it works........
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-Nate
1982 240D 408,XXX miles
Ignorance is the mother of suspicion and fear is the father

I did then what I knew how to do ~ now that I know better I do better
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  #70  
Old 01-08-2018, 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted by vwnate1 View Post

Remember : it takes a while to re charge the battery so don't go test starting it, only start it if you're going to drive it 20 minutes or more .
What if i just leave it running for 30 minutes idle? Does that charge the battery just as well?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diseasel300 View Post
Next time you're getting the smoke/exhaust/whatever coming up into the engine bay like that, crawl under the car and find out where it's coming from. It should be pretty obvious where the leak is because you should see the smoke/steam/whatever coming out where the breach is. The 126 has a flange connection sort of under the passenger foot area next to the transmission. There's a sort of "donut" seal in there and I had mine come loose and leak like crazy. Mine was due to misalignment when I reassembled the exhaust, tightening the bolts took care of it. I'd be looking for the exhaust leak, I can't stand the smell of exhaust in the cabin!
Will do! I actually look forward to it. Not super excited about putting my head under a rotating ton of metal, but hey.
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  #71  
Old 01-08-2018, 11:06 PM
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Exclamation BE CAREFUL !!!!

No ! you need to _drive_ the car so the alternator spins up fast enough to charge fully . take a long drive to a remote coffee shop or whatever .

Find a sloped street with a driveway and drive both right side tires up on the curb then slide underneath with a good flashlight to see / find the exhaust leak .

Choosing a street that slopes away from the curb means it won't be full of icy slush /water, etc.

SAFETY WARNING ! a Mercedes weighs about THREE TONS so if it slips off the curb because you didn't position it properly, YOU'LL DIE .

Consider this carefully before going under neath it or any other curb supported vehicle .

YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED .
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-Nate
1982 240D 408,XXX miles
Ignorance is the mother of suspicion and fear is the father

I did then what I knew how to do ~ now that I know better I do better
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  #72  
Old 01-08-2018, 11:12 PM
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Originally Posted by vwnate1 View Post
Find a sloped street with a driveway and drive both right side tires up on the curb then slide underneath with a good flashlight to see / find the exhaust leak .

SAFETY WARNING ! a Mercedes weighs about THREE TONS so if it slips off the curb because you didn't position it properly, YOU'LL DIE .
There should be adequate ground clearance to get your head up under the car without requiring driving up on a curb or anything. These old cars aren't exactly road-huggers. A strong flashlight and a good set of eyes will go a long way. You shouldn't have to actually crawl under the car, you can see the exhaust pipe pretty clearly by kneeling down on the ground and looking up under the car.

Not sure what Mercedes you're driving, but they're far from THREE TONS. The gross weight is something like 3800 pounds. 1 ton is 2000 pounds, so they don't even weigh 2 tons loaded. Still not something you want landing on you, but a long way from 3 tons (6000 pounds!)
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  #73  
Old 01-08-2018, 11:23 PM
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Originally Posted by 300Drestoration View Post
What if i just leave it running for 30 minutes idle? Does that charge the battery just as well?
Letting the engine sit and idle for long periods of time like that isn't a great idea. If you have no alternative, it's better than nothing, but if you can drive the car, go for a drive instead. Short drives here and there won't hurt it, but make sure you take trips >20 minutes to make sure the engine gets all the way up to operating temperature including the engine oil.

The length of time it takes to charge the battery back up fully depends on how run down it was in the first place, what the temperature is, how healthy your alternator is, what kinds of loads you're running in the car, how old the battery is, how good your battery connections are, etc etc, blah blah blah. Daytime, temperate weather, no A/C, say 5-10 minutes and it's fully recharged in city driving. Nighttime, add 5 minutes (lighting load). Cold weather or hot weather with A/C running (blower and compressor clutch), add another 5. If it was really cold and you had to cycle the glow plugs a lot or crank a long time, add another 5. Highway driving will speed the charging process up because the alternator can output a higher amperage due to running at a higher sustained speed.

Again, shorter trips aren't going to really hurt you, but you want to not make a habit of taking short trips all the time or you risk running the battery down or severely shortening its life expectancy. Letting a battery sit at low charge levels promotes the growth of sulfate on the lead plates in the battery, eventually ruining it.

Another thing a lot of people don't consider is the freezing point of the acid in the battery changes with charge state. A low charge will raise the freezing point of the acid in the battery as the specific gravity changes! This means a battery with low charge will freeze at a higher temperature than one that is fully charged!
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  #74  
Old 01-10-2018, 04:04 PM
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Well that's a lot of information that i hadn't expected to be given so easily! Nice.
Thank you. These are the things i think about and don't really know how to ask.. Like, what the general deal is with the relationship with battery charge and engine activity.
My work is about a 15 minute drive, and is the most common trip i take. But i let the car warm up for around 5 minutes first usually. I have found that makes a difference in it's immediate performance. If i drive the thing straight away, it's more sluggish. Needless to say, when the car's been driven for a while it is a world of difference hitting the pedal from stop.
Hopefully this work commute trek done twice a day is not going to hurt my battery over time. I suppose i could add around 5 minutes of nonsense driving each time.

Here's another thing that i frequently do though.. go to a Home Depot / Shopping plaza about 15 minute drive away, park the car for 20 minutes, and get back in and drive back. Does the benefit of a total of 30 minutes drive lose it's luster on the battery when i break it up with 20 minutes parked in a lot?

Since the vehicle is only around 3800 lbs and not 3 tons, i think i'll be ok if it falls on my head. My head can handle at least 2 tons, so we're good! I've been called thick headed more than once. ((i hope you can tell i'm kidding))

i think I'm going to pay like 65 bucks and have a local euro specialist do an informal diagnostic on the exhaust section. I have not had the front lifted to do a general inspection yet, and since i now have a clear goal in mind already i might as well have them do it and see if they can spot the issue while taking a general look at things. BUT, do shops have the ability to have the car running while looking underneath at things? If not, then maybe i should in fact take a peek with a flashlight and maybe a handheld mirror of some sort. But if they can check it while running, then i might as well kill two birds here and get the general diagnostic on that exhaust area.

I believe i can perform the repairs pretty much no matter what it is in that section, but I'll see what they would charge though. Having things taken care of during the winter weather is sometime just what you gotta do.
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  #75  
Old 01-10-2018, 11:33 PM
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The entire exhaust system and down pipe is behind the cross member and is not visible with the car on the ground, anyone who'd ever actually worked on one or even looked would know this .

I have a lot of curbside repair experience as I was a Field Mechanic for a long time, I have also seen heads popped like rotten tomatoes so ignoring my safety warnings is up to you .

Try shortening the warmup time, as soon as it'll pull away smoothly, do so as excessive idling isn't good for the engine or the rest of the driveline .

Not running the heater fan will increase the charge rate marginally ~ the original alternator is only 35 amperes or so , using anything other than a BOSCH branded voltage regulator guarantees lower charging rate, BT, DT, tested it to death and I know this .

I hope you're doing O.K. out there, January isn't done yet and February is next ~ BRrrrrrrrrr........

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-Nate
1982 240D 408,XXX miles
Ignorance is the mother of suspicion and fear is the father

I did then what I knew how to do ~ now that I know better I do better
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